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  1. #31
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    It makes sense why ESFJ's and ENFP's commonly mistype. They both are feelers that are extroverts, and can especially be confused with ESFJ's when the ESFJ has strong Ne. However, I can usually tell the difference because I can see the Fe poke it's nasty little head.
    I would expect you to readily see the differences between the two for the reasons we have discussed off-board... but what I've noticed is that it's such a common mistype on these personality forums...that I honest to god think the lines are starting to blur! That the mistyped ESFJ is more recognizable as an ENFP than an actual ENFP It's the 'Gets Things Going' interaction style.

    I still don't know what makes some expressions of Fe something I'm entirely comfortable with and welcome...and some expressions terrify me like how it would if you suddenly found yourself surrounded by pod-people...and start slowly reaching for your sword so you can end it all Harakari style (unfortunately you can't kill pod-people.)

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    So what if someone "suffers a psychotic break"? I don't care about that. Why is it assumed to be so much more healthy to snipe at people for stupid little things than blow up over some big thing? It isn't. I think I prefer the latter over the former.
    I don't know if you saw my addendum or not to the previous post but those little things are usually perceived (at least at the time they occur) as big things or related to something big (normally due to a network of connotations like you mentioned earlier.) Chalk that up to a subjective, idiosyncratic value system.

    My advice is to stop worrying about it. I'm going to be bold and use a traditional Fe complaint of mine at you here and say that you don't really care about them. You're just annoyed because your Fe is bugging you about violating group values and you're (understandably) blaming them for it. But in this case it isn't their fault, you're the one with the issue by letting it get to you.

    Unfortunately it is bed time for me now so this will be my farewell.

  3. #33
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Cuz ESFJs are one of the most common types!
    Well duh!
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #34
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I don't know if you saw my addendum or not to the previous post but those little things are usually perceived (at least at the time they occur) as big things or related to something big (normally due to a network of connotations like you mentioned earlier.) Chalk that up to a subjective, idiosyncratic value system.

    My advice is to stop worrying about it. I'm going to be bold and use a traditional Fe complaint of mine at you here and say that you don't really care about them. You're just annoyed because your Fe is bugging you about violating group values and you're (understandably) blaming them for it. But in this case it isn't their fault, you're the one with the issue by letting it get to you.
    Actually, I'm very susceptible to guilt. There's a big difference, too, between not caring about someone and being incapable, despite your best efforts, of giving them what they need. I can only be so mindful of these things.

    What group values would they, or me, (unclear whose group values they are) even be violating? I can't fathom myself being offended at a comment like that. If my girlfriend made some joke like that, I can state, with certainty, that I wouldn't be offended. Yes... even if it was about a female "sucking off" a male.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  5. #35
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    And yet, they seem to get offended by things that aren't even insults, like the fact that I used the phrase "Aragorn is boning an elf." (That's what he was doing! ) I think the thing is that Fi cares a lot about the connotation of a word, while Ti cares a lot about the denotation of the word. I don't think very much about connotations at all, which I think is what causes a lot of my problems with Fi-doms.

    What I don't understand is taking things seriously that don't warrant being taken seriously. Like the sex lives of LOTR characters. Are you really telling me that Fi-doms don't have a tendency to do this? Maybe to you, it seems like something that should be taken seriously, but to me, it doesn't.
    Can you clarify what Fi-doms have a tendency to do? Not sure what you mean.

    Meanwhile, everyone knows that they were virgins until they married. Duh.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #36
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Can you clarify what Fi-doms have a tendency to do? Not sure what you mean.

    Meanwhile, everyone knows that they were virgins until they married. Duh.
    From my POV, they take offense and object to a lot of little things. The objection is really part of some bigger issue, either with myself, or with me, but the big issue is almost always avoided in favor of the small issues. It seems as though Fi is in touch with their emotions in the sense that they are in touch with their immediate reaction to things, but does not seem to be good at putting it all together and seeing what the real issue is. So even if I figure out on my own, they'll deny it, without even providing an alternative explanation. They'll fit that pattern perfectly.

    Also, there's this:

    Guide to Jungian Function Axes

    Hence the criticisms I will surely receive that I am speaking not of patterns associated with introverted feeling (even though this even happens with at least one of the Extraverted Thinkers here), but of individuals. The observations are only true for the specific individuals I am speaking of, and cannot, ever, under any circumstance, be applied to to other Fi types to form some kind of conclusion.

    If it had nothing to do with introverted feeling, and just me being bad at interacting with people, it would come up with everyone I am close to. But it doesn't. It only happens with Introverted Feeling types, primarily people who have that function as a dominant.

    Moreover, my attempts at reconciliation are sign as "fake", I suspect. I should have said the right thing from the beginning. Because, Fi is simply incapable of saying things that might offend me, obviously, and never makes those kinds of mistakes.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  7. #37
    brainheart
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    ESFJ females, in particular, can feel misunderstood in a culture predominated by FP and TJ females.
    Ha ha, yeah right. I've always been seen as an odd female due to being a Fi-dom. Fe females are everywhere.

    My daughter is a Fe dom and so is my sis and we've always gotten along and I think they're awesome.

  8. #38
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Yes, everyone thinks ESFPs are weirdos. Obviously. Maybe the ESFP feels that way, but that doesn't mean that everyone thinks that.

    In what way are FP females seen as less feminine?
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  9. #39
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Ha ha, yeah right. I've always been seen as an odd female due to being a Fi-dom. Fe females are everywhere.

    My daughter is a Fe dom and so is my sis and we've always gotten along and I think they're awesome.
    OMG who originally wrote the statement you quoted brainheart? I need to see who's sense of reality I must now question... 'misunderstood in a world of FP & TJ women' ha.

    When you're running with the xFSJ females...you're running with the big-dogs... (which is precisely why I can't run with them and why I never look them directly in the eyes in hopes they don't completely destroy the already 'suspect' reputation I have. And I let them eat first...and make sure to get them greeting cards on the days I should. There's something very important having to do with greeting cards...)

  10. #40
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    OMG who originally wrote the statement you quoted brainheart? I need to see who's sense of reality I must now question... 'misunderstood in a world of FP & TJ women' ha.
    In the OP.

    ...There's something very important having to do with greeting cards...)


    yeah, they love the greeting cards and the holidays. And I am a big big flake about these things.

    In what way are FP females seen as less feminine?
    @msg_v2 Well I can only speak for myself but I'm indifferent to greeting cards and holidays. I only want to be in a relationship with a person who sees me as an equal. I don't want to be taken care of or treated like a lady. I have never seen myself as a woman or a girl but as a human. The concept 'Ladies Night Out' makes me break out in hives. I don't cry in front of other people and I roll my eyes at my husband all the time for his overly demonstrative stating of feelings.

    Read Jung's description of Fi. It may be an eye opener.

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