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  1. #11
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    My best friend is an ESFJ. And as much as INTPs are seen as alienated I think we bonded over her also feeling that way. Of course it's less apparent because she does tend, publicly, to always wear a smile. She's accommodating with outsiders. Because she is so traditional is a field (art) where hipsters dominate she feels like an outcast. Even in broader society her being more interested in traditonal homemaking and religion leaves her feeling misunderstood. She often express frustration about not seeing the "real" version of a person. It's very much the idea that their is a public and private face. She's very funny and also good from overly introverted ruminating types (INFP husband and me) because she draws put attention back to the outside world and practical matters. She can be more abstract but she doesn't enjoy it, and general stays out of heat discussions about things that we can't change or have no practical application. This can also be frustrating though because she does hve the tendency to exaggerate her personality. That is in retaliation to people she disagrees with, rather than finding middle ground, she will go even more to the extreme of her side even if her true opinions are more
    Moderate. So if she is pulled into abstract discussions (or even pragmati ones) shell often say outlandishly dogmatic and dismissive things.

    Also in private while she is more fun and interesting and complex she is also more
    Controlling. She has a great tendency to see things as a power struggle, good vs evil. She tries to do the right things, which is generally the traditional things, and wants the people in her life to do the same. She'll say stuff like "now that I married" or "now that I'm an adult I have to do XYZ". Very tight ideas about what is appropriate. But generally her standards are higher for herself than anyone else and she doesn't expect people to do what she is unwilling too. But that can be horrifying to moral NTs or any NFs because she "gets" just doing things for the money, stealing, and general fraud if it gets you ahead. In one of her more exaggerate and hyper pragmatic moods she said if she didn't beilieve in god she would care about morality. Also I think she has weak ti and a disinterest in developing it, so while she does have logic for why she beilieved what she beilieved she is incapable of playing devils advocate or even entertaining other perspectives. I guess in a way we share the belief in absolute truth but her support of is very much sort an emotional forceful belief. He can prove it but he knows it.

    All and all I lover her very much. I think people to often see her standards for herself as her standard for the world and feel judged and get offended. In her case specifically because she has the smiling face people don't know how to say "no" to her and get resentful. She is bossy but does it so subtlety that you can't just say "stop being bossy". I found that being direct is best though. Because she doesn't compromise any attempt you Make to compromise leads to a long drawn out bleeding where she gets her way, and is never forceful but you feel forced. You have just cut it off at the start and generally then she'll back
    down.

    And also she geniunely does care. I read this about ENFJ but it think it's true of her too: she is putting on a face, a display, hiding things but it's not because she's fake. It's because she genuinely wants people to be comfortable And happy.

  2. #12
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Probably a lot of reading into negative stereotypes and not enough real life experience. In the internet world where quite a few people may harbor some annoyance or hatred of the famed social butterfly, ESFJs make an easy target for mocking and united hatred.

    From my experience with being best friends with someone who may seem like the stereotypical ESFJ I have to say that she's one of the best people around. She's silly, fun to be around, positive company, and emotionally aware and sensitive. I also appreciate her sense of backbone, she's got a clear idea of what she wants out of life and in people and what she doesn't. She can also be hardworking and determined. I think she's just an all-around awesome person. What I really appreciate is her delivery - she knows what she wants to say and she knows exactly how to say it so that everyone's happy. I love the win-win situations she tries to strive towards. Wait, I'm rambling again.

    I think ESFJs in general are pretty awesome people to be around. If you're friends with them, they're gonna be fiercely loyal to you while still providing a lot of fun. Sure, they may think something you do is a little weird or out of place but sometimes it's good to be kept in check. They can generally be pretty open-minded people regardless of how they're portrayed online too.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  3. #13
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    I don't mind the ESFJ with strong Ne but I hate most ESFJ's. I feel like I have to watch every word that I say around them. Whenever I say something that could even have the potential to offend people, they tend to freak out. I also like to say a lot of crazy things and tell lude jokes, and they try to make me feel bad about saying these things all the time. I really hate it!

    To perfectly illustrate what I'm talking about here, let me post a clip from season 3 of "Breaking Bad". In this clip a plane just crashed and many members of the community are affected by it. They ask the main INTJ character Walter White to give a speech about this, and he does. Now look at how uncomfortable he makes the hyspanic ESFJ lady in the back by his words, because she just knows that he his offending people and he could give less of a shit. She is constantly trying to get him to stop speaking in this clip because he is offending so many people, and eventually she just snatches the mike from him. This is what I feel like around ESFJ's in general.



    @Elfboy is this what you feel like around ESFJ's?

  4. #14
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Hate an ENFP...? If so, the chances you're actually hating an ESFJ seem to be fairly high...

    I've seen it happen here. A clearly ESFJ person shows up and is basically told by members they're ENFP if they're 'breezy' or wild and/or show even the slightest inclination towards intellectual pursuits or fashion *eye roll*

  5. #15
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Probably a lot of reading into negative stereotypes and not enough real life experience. In the internet world where quite a few people may harbor some annoyance or hatred of the famed social butterfly, ESFJs make an easy target for mocking and united hatred.

    From my experience with being best friends with someone who may seem like the stereotypical ESFJ I have to say that she's one of the best people around. She's silly, fun to be around, positive company, and emotionally aware and sensitive. I also appreciate her sense of backbone, she's got a clear idea of what she wants out of life and in people and what she doesn't. She can also be hardworking and determined. I think she's just an all-around awesome person. What I really appreciate is her delivery - she knows what she wants to say and she knows exactly how to say it so that everyone's happy. I love the win-win situations she tries to strive towards. Wait, I'm rambling again.

    I think ESFJs in general are pretty awesome people to be around. If you're friends with them, they're gonna be fiercely loyal to you while still providing a lot of fun. Sure, they may think something you do is a little weird or out of place but sometimes it's good to be kept in check. They can generally be pretty open-minded people regardless of how they're portrayed online too.
    Word.

  6. #16
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Hate an ENFP...? If so, the chances you're actually hating an ESFJ seem to be fairly high...

    I've seen it happen here. A clearly ESFJ person shows up and is basically told by members they're ENFP if they're 'breezy' or wild and/or show even the slightest inclination towards intellectual pursuits or fashion *eye roll*
    I feel like, when it comes to someone's type, most people can usually agree on the first and third letter but the second and fourth are always split. For example, I remember the debates between ENTJ and ESTP for Gordon Ramsay - the ExTx part was right but people were torn between NJ and SP. Similar thing happened on the Jennifer Lawrence thread iirc where people were leaning towards either ENFJ or ESFP. After looking at multiple Kelly Clarkson threads on Google, people either conceded to ESFJ or ENFP (and people were also torn between the two types for Asuna from Sword Art Online). I've also seen some debates between ISFP/INFJ and ISTP/INTJ. It's very odd, something about whether a perceiving function is dominant or tertiary throws people off but also I noticed each pair can carry themselves in similar ways in certain situations.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  7. #17
    Senior Member PimpinMcBoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    To perfectly illustrate what I'm talking about here, let me post a clip from season 3 of "Breaking Bad". In this clip a plane just crashed and many members of the community are affected by it. They ask the main INTJ character Walter White to give a speech about this, and he does. Now look at how uncomfortable he makes the hyspanic ESFJ lady in the back by his words, because she just knows that he his offending people and he could give less of a shit. She is constantly trying to get him to stop speaking in this clip because he is offending so many people, and eventually she just snatches the mike from him. This is what I feel like around ESFJ's in general.
    My memory might be a tad fuzzy (remembering exact details is always difficult for me, and she is a minor character.) But how exactly do you know said character's motivations for taking the microphone away? Even if it's an entirely fictional, it would be a guess as to how you could honestly make that assessment instead of her personally being offended by his speech.

    Oh wells, as an Inferior Fe type, I would actually say that I'm a tad bit more hysteric and totalitarian around my feeling function, because of the fact that I don't really take a lot of my time out to evaluate things for myself. I just sort of absorb the social atmosphere around me, and whenever I find something that's disagreeable, I get in a giant rant about it. A Fe dom would likely not be so into hysterics, unless they are just a hysterical person in general. Besides Fe doms should actually try to consult more to how they think about things, and don't fear the fact that what something is inside of their head, is not wrong and incorrect. That they are actually capable of thinking things through, instead of going on by what's socially agreeable or not.

    My personal opinion on ESFJs are that they are sort of boring as a type. No real strong emotions come when I see them mentioned, just sort of eye rolling at stereotypes.
    Phelgmatic-Jewish-Communist-Islamic-Transethnic-Asexual-National Socialist

  8. #18
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    I adore esfjs.

    I think they can be hilarious and I'm super impressed with many of their specific qualities. I can see how the negative ones play out too but we all have them and from my perspective theirs are usually at least well intentioned.

  9. #19
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I don't mind the ESFJ with strong Ne but I hate most ESFJ's. I feel like I have to watch every word that I say around them. Whenever I say something that could even have the potential to offend people, they tend to freak out. I also like to say a lot of crazy things and tell lude jokes, and they try to make me feel bad about saying these things all the time. I really hate it!
    See, that's how IXFPs make me feel. I don't think ExFJs make me feel that way. It's hard to know, though... I've never been part of an ExFJs inner circle, so maybe I would run into that problem. Interesting.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    See, that's how IXFPs make me feel. I don't think ExFJs make me feel that way. It's hard to know, though... I've never been part of an ExFJs inner circle, so maybe I would run into that problem. Interesting.
    IFPs are sensitive but they aren't retards. They take the hit, drown in an inner emotional abyss for a while and get up and move on. You don't need to act like they're fragile, naive little children around them either. If they're anything like me then they consider themselves closer to weary old war veterans. An insult would be just one in a very long line.

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