• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Going for the Ti-Ni Loop Again

Is RaptorWizard in a Ti-Ni Loop?


  • Total voters
    9

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Who thinks I'am an ISTP? Vote for this if you believe it!

How I use Ni - http://istp.forumotion.com/t131-rough-draft-of-istp-description

Ni is a subconscious function for me. Often it will combine with inferior Fe to produce
a negative outlook. For me, I am most conscious of it’s usage in social constructs. Walking into a room, I might pick up on tension or emotions in the room. Because Fe is inferior, Ni + Fe can also create feelings of being an outcast, or cause a fear that I “don’t fit in.”

I can get a good feel for my surroundings and know what other people are thinking or feeling but I also can't really fit in.

Ni in positive usage is combined with Ti to predict potential outcomes. When an ISTP is unhealthy, Ti and Ni can combine to predict constant negative outcomes. This is often described as the Ti-Ni loop. I don’t know how much I buy into that other than to agree that if you have a negative mindset, you will have negative thoughts. Nihilism can be a problem because Ni can see horrible possibilities. Because Ti can’t find a path that is perfect and free of all bad turnout, the ISTP will simply stop moving forward.

It's often very hard to make a decision because I'm frozen by the infinite spectrum of possibilities.

In my view, the eternal dichotomy of Ni is one of Insight vs Paranoia. It can be very difficult to determine which one you are experiencing.

I've developed conspiracy theories that make others see me as insane.

In social situations, the ISTP may have trouble determining if they are liked. Fe is weak and produces fear of experiencing negative emotions that cannot be trusted, controlled or predicted by Ti. Ni begins to see potential connections between facials expressions, words or phrases, or another person’s demeanor that communicate a potential rejection or social failure. Sometimes these moments are insight, but just as often, they are paranoia. Because Ni is weak and all final control is given to Ti, the ISTP can again start to feel stuck. Both social failure and social paranoia are possible. Ni cannot produce a concrete reality, only possibles, so Ti can’t draw a conclusion. The ISTP again becomes frozen and withdraws.

The whole idea of connecting with the context is often overwhelming and I have to retreat back into my mind.

SimulatedWorld's ISTP description - http://istp.forumotion.com/t119-simulatedworld-s-istp-description#915

Interestingly, despite their (somewhat accurate) reputation as apathetic loners, ISTPs typically feel strongly enough about their principles that they may even resort to vigilante justice in order to set things right with the world when legitimate establishments of law enforcement have failed to produce a just or consistent result. They're typically quite mindful of not stepping on other people's toes, but if you step on theirs, be prepared for a swift and unexpected backlash. Somewhat like INFJs, who share all of the same function attitudes, ISTPs in the grip of Ti+Ni may fantasize about using their superior strength and physical prowess (Se) to take revenge on people who unjustly bring harm to the innocent. "Eye for an eye" is often seen as the purest and most physically real affirmation of the sense of justice that factors so heavily into the ISTP's personal value judgments.

As the moral arbiters of things we need to decide what's right before commanding.

When undeveloped, tertiary Ni most frequently manifests itself in terms of semi-paranoid distrust of "the man" or of authority figures or anyone who may have the power to force the ISTP into any situation or role from which he does not have the option to escape when he wants to. This kind of cynicism may even lead the ISTP to claim some sort of supernatural foresight; he may doggedly insist that he "just knows" something to be the case despite total inability to explain why or display any physical evidence thereof. He may come to believe anything he does is simply playing into exactly what some unseen, evil "puppet master" of sorts wants him to do, and thus may insist that the situation is hopeless because he already knows how it's all going to end up.

Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful.

When applied more positively in a more developed state, tertiary Ni should bolster the ISTP's natural fluency with sensory cues by giving him deeper insight into the symbolic or suggestive meaning of the constant flow of outward sensory information he is normally attuned to. Rather than simply note what is and move on to noting something else that is, he will begin to consider the assumptions inherent in the set of rules he assumes must govern the way he interprets and evaluates that information, which, in time, will grant his "gut instincts" far more substantial meaning and accuracy by linking them to a deliberate purpose with much more far-reaching implications.

The past precedents give us a better foundation for constructing future visions.

Ni should ideally help the ISTP to feel even more completely free: she will realize she can adapt not only her present actions, but also her entire outlook and attitude according to whatever the immediacy of the moment demands: nothing can ever shake her composure because she can simply change her mindset to fit her surroundings.

The ultimate goal is to break our chains and find complete freedom.

When Se is poorly developed, and a TiNi loop results, the ISTP loses all desire to connect or exchange information with others in any meaningful way. He becomes extraordinarily self-centered, acting out his subconscious Se desires through increasingly impulsive (and possibly even dangerous or violent) outbursts, insistent that he is the only one who "has it all figured out", that all the small-minded fools surrounding him are running a pointless rat race for nothing, and that he does not and should not ever have anything to prove to such unworthy and insignificant creatures.

I'm far superior and ahead of my time in regards to understanding the architectures of everything.

He may delve further and further into bitter cynicism and conspiracy theorist behavior, as Ni develops increasingly outlandish interpretations to justify Ti's all-important desire to view the self as the only remaining bastion of consistency and truth in a purposeless world that cares for neither. Nihilism and hopelessness invariably result.

Take only what resonates with your inner sense of knowing and correlates with your observations and experience.

Ultimately, tertiary Ni should grant the well-balanced ISTP a unique sense of worldly wisdom. Already generally subdued by nature, his calm, quiet confidence will be nearly unshakable, as he will find the ability to separate himself from the tribulations of everyday problems enough to realize that eventually, everything is going to be fine, so we may as well just focus on dealing with what's in front of us and trust that everything else will fall into place the way it's supposed to. Development of tertiary Ni often coincides with a time in the ISTP's life where he retreats into a period of serious self-reflection and emerges with a far more calm and stable sense of philosophic purpose and global awareness.

One day I'm going to become the most powerful Jedi who's ever lived!
 

MacabreCharade

New member
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
50
Well, you certainly have the liveliness of an artisan.

Or at least that of an extraverted perceiver.
 

Standuble

New member
Joined
Aug 23, 2011
Messages
1,149
Haha I hope my comments didn't send you into a tailspin. I'm no expert on INTJs by any means.
 

Nicodemus

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
9,756
I think the diagnosis you already have describes you much better than any MB type can.
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Whenever I've quoted Zang ideologies people call it Ti-Ni a lot, but when Zang says it, people call it Ni-Fi; it's like the way it's said or the person saying it effects what people think. It's just funny though that if I'm suppost to be more like Zang than anyone else, then him being Ni-Fi and me being Ti-Ni is way different and confuses me. No way in hell would anyone call Zang a Ti-Ni. Okay, just a random idea, but hey, what's up fellas?
 

gromit

likes this
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
6,508
[MENTION=15371]RaptorWizard[/MENTION], I say ENFP... because why not?
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
[MENTION=15371]RaptorWizard[/MENTION], I say ENFP... because why not?

ENFP and ISTP have completely different functions and ENFPs are extraverted on top of that, so that theory is a complete fail.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
There is no such thing as a Ti Ni loop. There is a TiNi type.
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Wait... how did I just think of this question!?

Okay, here it is: do people in Ti-Ni loops ask everyone what they think, or do their trust their own ideas?

Well, maybe Ni as tertiary isn't trusted as much, so an ISTP needs more outside confirmation and seeks input from others, whereas Ni-Ti or Ni-Fi trusts their own intuition, so ISTP > INxJ.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Wait... how did I just think of this question!?

Okay, here it is: do people in Ti-Ni loops ask everyone what they think, or do their trust their own ideas?

Well, maybe Ni as tertiary isn't trusted as much, so an ISTP needs more outside confirmation, whereas Ni-Ti trusts their own intuition.

Copernican epicycles. Copernicus had to invent more and more epicycles to explain discrepancies in his cosmological theory. Tertiary theory is an example of a theory used to compensate for deficits in JCF theory. Tertiary theory is an "epicycle" theory.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Are you saying there is no such things as loops at all? If not then I have no idea why you singled out ISTP.

I didn't single out anything. I have observed some members here going around and around in confusion about their type all because of JCF.
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I didn't single out anything. I have observed some members here going around and around in confusion about their type all because of JCF.

Hmm, this is a valid point that needs to be seriously factored. Actual personality traits may be a more consistent system of measurement than smashing random thought processes to somehow fit inside some preconceived system model.
 

greenfairy

philosopher wood nymph
Joined
May 25, 2012
Messages
4,024
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
If cognitive functions don't matter, then I'm an NT and INFJ at the same time.

I don't think "loops" are necessarily what people describe them as; I think people underdevelop their auxiliary function and then become either too immersed in the outside world (if both dominant and tertiary are extroverted) or too stuck in their own minds (if both introverted). It's simple. It doesn't represent a mental disorder, but people with mental disorders may be in them representing the extreme side of not enough extroversion-introversion balance.

I voted maybe because I'm still considering Ni-Ti, which is the other side of the coin. And I can't 100% know anyway.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
If cognitive functions don't matter, then I'm an NT and INFJ at the same time.

I don't think "loops" are necessarily what people describe them as; I think people underdevelop their auxiliary function and then become either too immersed in the outside world (if both dominant and tertiary are extroverted) or too stuck in their own minds (if both introverted). It's simple. It doesn't represent a mental disorder, but people with mental disorders may be in them representing the extreme side of not enough extroversion-introversion balance.

I voted maybe because I'm still considering Ni-Ti, which is the other side of the coin. And I can't 100% know anyway.

Your avatar is so... beckoning.
 
I

Infinite Bubble

Guest
I also think that loops don't exist really, just that it is how a person formed due to their environment and lifestyle. If it is such then any non-opposing function can be developed alongside the primary. Jung himself, and some seasoned practitioners, typed several famous people as "doubly-introverted" types (NiTi, I remember a couple being), but I've forgotten the source. I guess though that if someone is ill and does not get much outside stimulation because of it, they'll begin to withdraw into their inner world of introverted functions because that is natural. But it's not really a loop. As soon as they get healthy doses of stimulation, the extroverted function will have to be used once again.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The loops exist. I escaped the TiNi loop by setting and accomplishing goals for myself. Get out of the house and live your life. A small amount of TiNi daydreaming every now and then is fine, but don't get stuck - it's a downward schizophrenic spiral. Stay in touch with reality. Exploring the space of possibilities is fine, but if you don't exert control over yourself you could lose control completely.

Saying the loop exists doesn't mean it exists.
 
Top