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  1. #31
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    If this is going to become a Fe v. Fi thing, I'd say the important "Fe factor" here is that Fe is inferior and as such, is causing stress. A Fe user more adept than us ITP souls would be far more likely to handle an emitted emotion "appropriately" and to be honest, good for your date for calling you out on your inauthenticity. Ti and Fi are not all that different from a process standpoint, and if Ti is adept at sniffing out inconsistency in systems and thinking then Fi can be equally such at detecting inconsistency in feeling and its expression.

    I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the "laying it all out on the table" approach as being incompatible with your needs. ITPs complain endlessly about the inauthenticity of culture and everyday interaction, and here you are, perpetuating that inauthenticity by being accomodating. It may be "polite" in some sense, and it's easy to lie to yourself and say you're "saving them from unpleasantness" but you're really just saving yourself from the unpleasantness of dealing with an emotional situation. I've done the same thing before, it sucks for everybody involved, and we're really not fooling anybody. I've found that when I think I'm being stealthy in hiding my emotional disposition, to F users I might as well be a collapsing star jettisoning my atmosphere of stress. When things are "put out there," the immediate reaction is certainly ohshitohshitohshit, as we tend to think the tools we have for dealing with such a situation are shit, but it addresses the problem immediately and I think you'll ultimately feel better. And if all blows up in your face, well, it's better to be a blunt and honest asshole than a shady, inauthentic one.

    TLDR take your medicine, it tastes bad but it's good for you.


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  2. #32
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    If this is going to become a Fe v. Fi thing, I'd say the important "Fe factor" here is that Fe is inferior and as such, is causing stress. A Fe user more adept than us ITP souls would be far more likely to handle an emitted emotion "appropriately" and to be honest, good for your date for calling you out on your inauthenticity. Ti and Fi are not all that different from a process standpoint, and if Ti is adept at sniffing out inconsistency in systems and thinking then Fi can be equally such at detecting inconsistency in feeling and its expression.

    I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the "laying it all out on the table" approach as being incompatible with your needs. ITPs complain endlessly about the inauthenticity of culture and everyday interaction, and here you are, perpetuating that inauthenticity by being accomodating. It may be "polite" in some sense, and it's easy to lie to yourself and say you're "saving them from unpleasantness" but you're really just saving yourself from the unpleasantness of dealing with an emotional situation. I've done the same thing before, it sucks for everybody involved, and we're really not fooling anybody. I've found that when I think I'm being stealthy in hiding my emotional disposition, to F users I might as well be a collapsing star jettisoning my atmosphere of stress. When things are "put out there," the immediate reaction is certainly ohshitohshitohshit, as we tend to think the tools we have for dealing with such a situation are shit, but it addresses the problem immediately and I think you'll ultimately feel better. And if all blows up in your face, well, it's better to be a blunt and honest asshole than a shady, inauthentic one.

    TLDR take your medicine, it tastes bad but it's good for you.
    Fantastic response illuminating the double standard.

    I think it would have taken an INFP person a whole lot of courage to ask you "What's wrong?" in a first-date situation - the signals you were sending out must have been as obvious as a trumpet blaring in the streets. You're not saving anyone any embarrassment by pretending all is well when it isn't. If anything, she saved you embarrassment by not walking out on you despite your very uninterested signals. Why should she have to sit there with you, all obviously disconnected, and everyone around the pair of you sensing it too ... can you see how embarrassing that is for her too, to have to pretend all is well?

    Not trying to lay guilt over you, and it seems you are getting closer to being able to put yourself in the shoes of the other, so I am pressing you to try to see it from her pov. It sounds like you might as well have had a neon sign flashing over your head saying, "Just going through the motions 'til I can escape".
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #33
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    This really stressed me out. How can you tell someone who is being perfectly nice and actually showing concern for you that you're just not interested? I couldn't do it, the words just wouldn't come out. Stress, guilt, anxiety, loneliness just kicked in like crazy right then and there.
    You just say it like that. "You are intelligent and lovely and I appreciate the concern you have right now for me, but I think our date is leaning me towards us being friends rather than a couple. I'd like to enjoy the rest of our date as friends, but I understand if you'd like to cut it short."

    Then you be a gentleman, drive her home or whatever, and thank her for her time to get to know you a little better.

    You could even apologize for not helping the evening go smoother ...

    Why do I have responsibility for the feelings you absorb from me?
    Oh boy. What a question!
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #34
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Actually I totally see Fe and Fi out of this. Fi absorbs and observes and engages feeling. It's partially the feelings that the other person puts out and partially the feelings that the Fi user focuses on. Fi brings it up because Fi just "feels" it in the air and assumes it's obvious to the other person, too. Fe, looking instead at the exchange of feeling, says why are you pushing this feeling on me? to Fi. Fe wonders how that exchange is supposed to make things better. Fi feels like if both people are open and exposed then there shouldn't be any hurt, because there's no malintent. Of course that doesn't always bear out, but Fi has never been particularly realistic.
    I don't think it's really that type specific. I have had other Fe doms pressure me to open up to them because they craved the connection in some way (and not always in the name of social pragmatism). I was talking to an ENFJ friend of mine and the conversation went like this.

    Him: (talking about universal values and what people truly love and want out of life for like 40 minutes)
    Me: (zoning out for 2 minutes after that)
    Him: What are you thinking about?
    Me: I don't know.
    Him: You do know... You just don't want to tell me.
    Him: (launches into a 20 minute discussion about the importance of expressing yourself).
    Him: Do you know the value if your own thoughts?... What do you love?

  5. #35
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    I don't think it's really that type specific. I have had other Fe doms pressure me to open up to them because they craved the connection in some way (and not always in the name of social pragmatism). I was talking to an ENFJ friend of mine and the conversation went like this.

    Him: (talking about universal values and what people truly love and want out of life for like 40 minutes)
    Me: (zoning out for 2 minutes after that)
    Him: What are you thinking about?
    Me: I don't know.
    Him: You do know... You just don't want to tell me.
    Him: (launches into a 20 minute discussion about the importance of expressing yourself).
    Him: Do you know the value if your own thoughts?... What do you love?


    That's true. I have a coworker who's like that. Is this guy a preacher? Because this ENF at my work... man... that sounds exactly like him. I can't decide if he's ENFP or ENFJ, though. He seems more Fe/Ni but he is such a space cadet.

    He too goes on monologues about what people should do. And he always is trying to get everyone involved. But sometimes I don't want to when I know it's going to be subject to his scrutiny...

    Admittedly I am someone who tends to open up, so I don't often feel that. It's a good point. Sharing isn't only a Fe/Fi thing.

    But sometimes I think that "burden of the other person's emotions" can be Fe related. My ISFJ has voiced it with me, too, like why are you putting all of this on me? I just share it because I want to sort through it with the added benefit of his perspective and comfort. But he feels like if I'm sharing it with him, that he has a desire to do something about it, actively. I think that is more Fe-like, isn't it? Maybe I am wrong!

  6. #36
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You just say it like that. "You are intelligent and lovely and I appreciate the concern you have right now for me, but I think our date is leaning me towards us being friends rather than a couple. I'd like to enjoy the rest of our date as friends, but I understand if you'd like to cut it short."

    Then you be a gentleman, drive her home or whatever, and thank her for her time to get to know you a little better.

    You could even apologize for not helping the evening go smoother ...


    That is what I would think would be the "ideal" response, too. You say that you think (these qualities) of hers are lovely, and you are so sorry that you took her out and now aren't feeling like it's going to work, but you've really appreciated her time and getting to meet her, and maybe buy her a coffee and just talk about life as friends or just drive her home if she'd rather.

    I mean, that's what I'd rather, too. Yeah it's going to sting a little, but way better to end it now and make the most of it than have to endure it and then leave her hanging later on. Fi would more pissed off to know you're pretending than to just have you come clean.

  7. #37
    Glycerine
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    Haha, yeah I see what you mean. My friend makes it seem like he's leading me down some sort of road where the final destination is his perspective/vision (in a way only NJs can). At first, he seemed kind of ENFP but the way he formulated his thoughts all related back to a couple major themes (like an integrative approach as opposed to expansive).

  8. #38
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    Haha, yeah I see what you mean. My friend makes it seem like he's leading me down some sort of road where the final destination is his perspective/vision (in a way only NJs can). At first, he seemed kind of ENFP but the way he formulated his thoughts all related back to a couple major themes (like an integrative approach as opposed to expansive).
    Yeah, exactly, that's how this guy is too. It all fits into his vision of how the world should be. It's funny because we have other NFJs at work who clearly disagree with that vision (for example, that everyone is meant to be in a relationship and will be better off that way).

  9. #39
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You just say it like that. "You are intelligent and lovely and I appreciate the concern you have right now for me, but I think our date is leaning me towards us being friends rather than a couple. I'd like to enjoy the rest of our date as friends, but I understand if you'd like to cut it short."
    I don't believe that... Why would I say that? Who does that make feel better? It doesn't make me feel better, and it probably doesn't make her feel better. uggh. The thought of those words coming out of my mouth disgusts me. Terrible advice. This thread is kind of disgusting me right now. What kind of a moron does that stuff even work on?

    (I'm open with my feelings here. Are either of us really any better off because I expressed them? Incidentally, this entire issue was why I didn't think this person was relationship material. )
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  10. #40
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I don't believe that... Why would I say that? Who does that make feel better? It doesn't make me feel better, and it probably doesn't make her feel better. uggh. The thought of those words coming out of my mouth disgusts me. Terrible advice. This thread is kind of disgusting me right now. What kind of a moron does that stuff even work on?

    (I'm open with my feelings here. Are either of us really any better off because I expressed them? Incidentally, this entire issue was why I didn't think this person was relationship material. )
    What!? Omg this response cracks me up!

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