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  1. #51
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I learned Te in the military: Organization, jurisdictions, chains of command, delegation, and all that other stuff. From there, it's not a big leap to Fe. As I see it, Fe is just a kinder, gentler version of Te; you just slow down and dot all the i's and cross all the t's.

    Also, my work experience after the military was kind of in an international diplomatic environment (one of the big international organizations in Washington, D.C.). Fe-users excelled in that environment, and I learned a lot by watching them.

    Did you chafe against it at first, or was it just a natural evolution as you got older and were dealing with people?

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Did you chafe against it at first, or was it just a natural evolution as you got older and were dealing with people?
    It was just "work mode," like wearing a suit. They paid me to be a good worker or a good boss or whatever, and Te/Fe was part of the formula.

    It actually took me longer to translate that stuff into my personal life. I saw it as "work mode" and didn't necessarily use it outside of work. But eventually I saw some use for it in my private life as well.

  3. #53
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    okay yeah that's helpful. i think i do a good bit of that naturally (or at least it feels like i do) i think it's typically omg i personal statement/experience!! and then the other person says well no that's not exactly it...so then i ask more questions...get more info...refine the empathetic experience so i fully understand it...then talk it out with you in the same way i would in my head if i were processing my own situation. if that makes sense.

    so...the reason we do that...is as i think you already know just so we know the experience intimately enough to offer insight.

    but i think what i'm hearing is that it would be preferable for us to just do more active listening...in a sense slowly pulling you out of the water rather than jumping in with you. <--------and yes i relate to that. that is the fi bonding way (at least from my perspective) how do i know what the experience is for you or how to hep you through it if i can't feel it? yes i could ask you the temperature, the speed of the current, rather it makes you feel scared or exhilarated etc but so much quicker and accurate feeling to me if i was in there with you.

    but....you just want a rope and for us to hypothesize on the experience? or maybe that's a sloppy assessment?

    also...yes i think fi can be intense. it can feel like throwing plates. it can feel as the world as we know it just stopped and nothing matters more than resolving this issue right now because it is the foundation with which everything else rests upon. or maybe that's an sx flavored view? but...it is not always that way...it could be...deep hurt and sadness and an intense feeling of rejection to everything that i am...that of a mother rejecting her child. that's the levl of pain felt. and in that instance...there's not a thing anyone could do or say that's going to help with that. that processing has to be done alone. ime

    also...the other part of that could be an e/i thing or etype thing...i guess so much of these things are flavored in that way.
    Hmm...

    I think it's not so much that the Fe user needs you to simulate the experience, because they don't need you to solve it. It's more like, "Hey, can you get that rope over there, because you're free right now and I'm stuck in the water! Okay, now tie it around that tree and throw it over here". You don't need to know anything about water temperature or current because you're needed to do something else!

    You are in a unique position where you are not emotionally embroiled in the situation, nor bogged down with a ton of details. Therefore, in articulating my problem to you, it helps me decide what is really at the heart of it all. You also may possess a set of experiences that allow me to access a new take on the situation or have a skillset that I don't have. You might also be capable of offering me enough sympathy that I run out of steam in my frustration and then can get on with noticing that there is an sandbar right near me in the river I can get to while I collect my head.

    It's like being the assistant who sterilizes the equipment and hands the surgeon what they need. Your presence could be the difference between life or death for the patient, but the surgeon is still going to do the surgery.

    I don't know - maybe that's too many analogies, but that's how it feels to me. Is that of any help?

    Oh! Also, there would be no need to ask about the emotion being felt. That will either come out or else it is irrelevent. Kind of like talking to someone trapped in the upstairs of a burning house. Whether they are scared or whether they are full of adrenaline doesn't really matter right then. What matters is getting out alive. Fear is what prompts the person to get the heck out of the house, so it seems like a strange question to me because the answer seems obvious. I can only conclude though that Fi users process differently, because this response comes up over and over, so I've got to give it some credence as being a Fi thing.

  4. #54
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    It was just "work mode," like wearing a suit. They paid me to be a good worker or a good boss or whatever, and Te/Fe was part of the formula.

    It actually took me longer to translate that stuff into my personal life. I saw it as "work mode" and didn't necessarily use it outside of work. But eventually I saw some use for it in my private life as well.
    What was the catalyst to see the out of work application for it? (You don't have to be specific if you don't want to). I guess what I mean is, what made you consider using those skills outside of work? Was it gradual, or more of an abrupt realization?

  5. #55
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Really? I didn't realize that! I just assumed that if you have more similar functions that it would make it easy. However, I think Fi is very individual too - less commonalities that Fe and Fe maybe?
    fi/fi i've found often works great when we're discussing situations outside of our relationship. we can feel and empathize with the others perspective and it feels like being heard and validated. which is something we greatly need but when it's an issue between the two fi users...it takes much more work to step out of your experience and into theirs because you both feel defined by it...so removing it is painful.

    it eventually happens tho and both experiences become understood in an intimate way. it's as tho we have to learn to reside in both places.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    What was the catalyst to see the out of work application for it? (You don't have to be specific if you don't want to). I guess what I mean is, what made you consider using those skills outside of work? Was it gradual, or more of an abrupt realization?
    In the workplace, it was okay to be a little "peremptory" (mix some Te in with the Fe), and the most important courtesies to be observed at work were "professional courtesies." Those things were easy to pick up in the work environment. But outside of work I was doing a lot of social events with Mensa, and I quickly realized that I could stand to learn more about "social courtesies" and that kind of thing. So I started reading a lot of books about socializing, small talk, etiquette, networking, etc. It was new to me, and it was kind of fun to finally fill in that gap in my knowledge and start working on those particular skills.

  7. #57
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Hmm...

    I think it's not so much that the Fe user needs you to simulate the experience, because they don't need you to solve it. It's more like, "Hey, can you get that rope over there, because you're free right now and I'm stuck in the water! Okay, now tie it around that tree and throw it over here". You don't need to know anything about water temperature or current because you're needed to do something else!

    You are in a unique position where you are not emotionally embroiled in the situation, nor bogged down with a ton of details. Therefore, in articulating my problem to you, it helps me decide what is really at the heart of it all. You also may possess a set of experiences that allow me to access a new take on the situation or have a skillset that I don't have. You might also be capable of offering me enough sympathy that I run out of steam in my frustration and then can get on with noticing that there is an sandbar right near me in the river I can get to while I collect my head.

    It's like being the assistant who sterilizes the equipment and hands the surgeon what they need. Your presence could be the difference between life or death for the patient, but the surgeon is still going to do the surgery.

    I don't know - maybe that's too many analogies, but that's how it feels to me. Is that of any help?
    it is and again reminded of the conversation we once had about fe being like te. yes i can think out loud with you....but the issue comes with learning to feel out loud with you...or think/feel through something with you without becoming attached to the emotional aspect. i don't know how to not feel it with you.

    which is odd because isn't it said that fe users feel your feelings? i'm thinking that's not as accurate as what you mentioned in a previous post as feeling responsible for them. feeling blamed if they're negative or feel you need to manage them in some way for us.

    can you help me sort that out?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #58
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Oh gosh another fe/fi thread. Fe users brace yourself because another fe is fake and shallow shit storm is heading this way. Good luck!
    that's so not the point here mister! we're building a bridge n shit! and i'm not so sure i'm going to allow you on it with all that negative shiz!
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #59
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    that's so not the point here mister! we're building a bridge n shit! and i'm not so sure i'm going to allow you on it with all that negative shiz!
    i wonder if this being mostly an Fe-aux Fi-aux discussion has actually helped not raise the sensitivities. maybe Fe-dom Fi-dom would have been more complicated.

    also, i totally agree with you on the Fi-Fi being useful for discussion of people outside the relationship and not so good when facing each other. i think i read on a socionics site that ENFP-INFP works pretty well as a team facing the same direction, but as soon as the direction becomes facing each other, then it starts a shitstorm.

  10. #60
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    "Offends"?

    I dunno, being a total dickhole about what one communicates can be grating, but cooler heads prevail. "Like a river over stone," man. One should ideally learn to separate the dickholeness from the core message so that the latter isn't completely discarded--but the separation can still be murky.

    The dickholeness itself provides clues. Some people simply have that style of delivery, some consciously protect a feeble and pithy core message inside a war machine, some actually believe that their messages are stronger than they are (e.g. out of arrogance), and some actually have legitimate, strong messages that wouldn't be heard if not for a strong delivery.


    edit:

    Dickholeness, to me, means being insulting, dominating a conversation (less of a shouting "match" than a shouting.. .. soliloquy..), and.. other things that I can't recall off the top of my head but that are in that general area.

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