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  1. #111
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    welll...are you going to tell us? wait...where are the quotes?

    anyway...maybe you're mid edit. but i'd like to hear more t perspectives too.
    The quotes are those from Fidelia and Fineline that I included in the post (are they not showing up for you?) I'm no expert on this and was hoping to learn from others here, but I can go back and edit my post to include how I see these.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #112
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I can see 'em.

    I'd like more T type presence in the thread, so any of you that are willing, please post away. It doesn't have to be based on my original post, but maybe if you want to do your own version of that kind of thing, then there is a jumping off point to start from?

  3. #113
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The quotes are those from Fidelia and Fineline that I included in the post (are they not showing up for you?) I'm no expert on this and was hoping to learn from others here, but I can go back and edit my post to include how I see these.
    oh hey no i saw your quotes in your post but they weren't there when i quoted and responded to you..

    i thought you quoted them and intended to explain how they would be different from your te perspective...but i just saw their quotes. did i miss something?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #114
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    This is something I'd like to better understand. I think that because of how I process feeling, I can't fathom how those feelings can feel as personal and unchangeable (I guess values based?) as they do. Can anyone explain more to me about what that feels like? My whole decision making processes are predicated on being able to to analyze and transform my feelings, so imagining a world where that wasn't how decisions are made is really hard for me (again, I realize I'm talking about Ni flavoured Fe).
    This might be because I'm tert Fi, but I don't analyze my feelings. I have certain beliefs and convictions. I'm valuing what is important and what is not. I judge what is good and bad. I assess if I'm acting in accordance with my beliefs. I notice when people are acting phony. The way I look at it is I have my convictions/feelings and you have yours. It's really just that simple. I'll engage is a discussion about such things and it's not like they are completely unchangeable but they serve as a sort of core for me. As far as how that works or how these judgments are arrived at - I'm not sure.

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  5. #115
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    What offends me is rejection.

  6. #116
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    I would definitely interpret it as either poor manners or just that she didn't feel like talking. It used to kill me when people didn't respond and it still does when I feel communication is necessary, but I feel like being so close with so many introverts, I am quick to tell myself "shut up. Not everyone wants to talk as much as you do."
    I am an introvert with introvert siblings who was raised by introverts. The story in the car and how it was received startled me: in my immediate family, the car more than anywhere is a place where no one minds if you keep to yourself, look out the window, and unwind from whatever you were doing outside. If a relative or someone from outside the family is there, the whole game changes because assuming all people chill the way you do is foolish.

    In my dearest context, part of intimacy is not having to speak to be mutually (<-- key word!) comfortable in each other's presence, and there doesn't have to be a reason. I gravitate toward close relationships with people who feel the same, as this thread affirms I damn well should because again, all people do not. That said, when there is something wrong between us, my inner circles know that I will bring it to light as soon as it's appropriate, so no news is never bad news.

    So, yeah. My take is very closely in line with the Fi themes in here: silence doesn't disturb us because when something is wrong, we trust each other to be verbally direct about it in the moment.
    Last edited by Video; 09-13-2013 at 04:26 AM. Reason: clarity my god.
    4w3 6w5 1w2 sx/sp ISFP

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  7. #117
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    So is it bad to warn people when you're in a bad mood and not fit company for man nor beast? I've always done that with my kids and even my husband. With the kids, I tell them that it's not their fault and that it's better if they leave me alone for awhile because I'm in a foul mood and might take it out on them even though they haven't done anything wrong and wouldn't deserve it. Usually I'm okay once I eat or the AC starts cooling things off or the crisis is over or I take a nap.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #118
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    So is it bad to warn people when you're in a bad mood and not fit company for man nor beast? I've always done that with my kids and even my husband. With the kids, I tell them that it's not their fault and that it's better if they leave me alone for awhile because I'm in a foul mood and might take it out on them even though they haven't done anything wrong and wouldn't deserve it. Usually I'm okay once I eat or the AC starts cooling things off or the crisis is over or I take a nap.
    I for one really, really appreciate when someone shows they care by doing the bolded.
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  9. #119
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    So is it bad to warn people when you're in a bad mood and not fit company for man nor beast? I've always done that with my kids and even my husband. With the kids, I tell them that it's not their fault and that it's better if they leave me alone for awhile because I'm in a foul mood and might take it out on them even though they haven't done anything wrong and wouldn't deserve it. Usually I'm okay once I eat or the AC starts cooling things off or the crisis is over or I take a nap.
    Yeah for sure. I think that's the best thing ever. I so appreciate that and try to teach the little people to do that. I do it too... I usually say that I'm feeling a bit grumpy at the moment because I didn't sleep well or something.

    I usually try to make light of it or make fun of myself or the situation and it usually makes me laugh and I end up feeling better anyway. I totally appreciate when other people can do that for me too instead of take it personal or start getting all moody in return.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I'd like to know too about where Ni/Ne starts bleeding into Fe. If something is offensive, I want to understand why, because that's where I think most of the learning happens.
    this:
    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    - I think this is more Ne/Ni stuff, but sometimes I get impatient with being offered "uncooked" ideas - stuff that has not been thought through to conclusion, because I mistake it for being offered a "cooked" but odd-tasting conclusion. I'm getting better at recognizing this sooner, but I still sometimes get kind of judgey and frustrated before I remember.
    i'm trying to think of a good way to explain this so it won't go in a dozen of potential miscommunications. see in your mind you are seen NPs giving you unbaked goods, but in the NP experience you are putting forth and uncooked piece which clearly has a lot more room for cooking - and declaring that it's cooked. but that is still rather vague... the problem - and the point where it gets offensive - is when it gets into practice.

    imagine you are reading the reports of the case of dexter morgan.. except you have 7 reporters investigating it, and each of them decided that the case close and that the information is cooked in a completely different point:

    scenario A:
    fact 1: dexter killed the person who murdered his wife...

    scenario B:
    fact 1: dexter killed the person who murdered his wife...
    fact 2: dexter has invaded this person's life and threatened him before hand...

    scenario C:
    fact 1: dexter killed the person who murdered his wife...
    fact 2: dexter was intending to kill him before his wife was killed...
    fact 3: because dexter is a serial killer himself...

    scenario D:
    fact 1: dexter killed the person who murdered his wife...
    fact 2: dexter was intending to kill him before his wife was killed...
    fact 3: because dexter is a serial killer himself...
    fact 4: but he only kills other serial killers...

    scenario E:
    fact 1: dexter killed the person who murdered his wife.
    fact 2: dexter was intending to kill him before his wife was killed.
    fact 3: because dexter is a serial killer himself...
    fact 4: but he only kills other serial killers...
    fact 5: for his survival, because people rarely avenge the loss of psychopaths...

    scenario F:
    fact 1: dexter killed the person who murdered his wife...
    fact 2: dexter was intending to kill him before his wife was killed...
    fact 3: because dexter is a serial killer himself...
    fact 4: but he only kills other serial killers...
    fact 5: for his survival, because people rarely avenge the loss of psychopaths...
    fact 6: so that he can go on living 'n killing, since he can't control it otherwise...

    scenario G:
    fact 1: dexter killed the person who murdered his wife...
    fact 2: dexter was intending to kill him before his wife was killed...
    fact 3: because dexter is a serial killer himself...
    fact 4: but he only kills other serial killers...
    fact 5: for his survival, because people rarely avenge the loss of psychopaths...
    fact 6: so that he can go on living 'n killing, since he can't control it otherwise...
    fact 7: or so his father has raised him to believe since he was a young child...

    in scenario A, dexter is someone who'd kill out of revenge
    in scenario B dexter is somewhat creepy and suspicious but it isn't quite clear
    in scenario C, an entire range of possible motives for dexter's wife's killer show up.
    in scenario D we find out that dexter is actually a vigilante
    in scenario E we find out that he's is strategic...
    in scenario F, he isn't a vigilantly, but an addict & a psychopath
    in scenario G dexter is neither - he is more a victim of circumstance, blind to his own freewill

    this can go on and on, and yet choose any point within it at which the story is done and you've gathered all the relevant information, and you'd be missing the next bit which changes the picture altogether - the meaning one's actions, the nature of the agents, the relevant events, etc'.

    ofcourse, dexter is going to end in a few weeks and will hopefully have a good sense of closure. RL on the other hand doesn't - have you ever heard of a scientific field closing up? "ok, we're done! we've learned everything there is to know about [insert area of study]! let's move on. next please!"... nope, because there is always more to be learned and it sometimes the smallest details can change the picture entirely. you do get to points of diminishing returns in regards to further investigation - not because you are ever out of potential game changing findings but simply because it gets harder to find them - which can justify putting less effort into finding more information, but what it can never justify is closing the lid from information others find to be relevant.

    the point where it makes sense to do so isn't when you care about reality, it's when you care about the narrative - if the narrative where dexter is a vigilante, or alternatively the one where he is a psychopath, has some positive or negative value for you. and narratives are cool - they are comforting, they have a sense of clarity, and most importantly a meaning with an emotional appeal.... it's all quite understandable.. as a form of mental masturbation. and hey, everybody wanks. seriously, nuns too.. but also non metaphorically - humans are natural born storytellers, we all indulge in narratives.

    but when you apply it to real life, pick a point of all conclusiveness and decide that it's all cooked, you are trying to force a narrative upon it and everyone within it - the real world is where other people happen to exist, and the fact is other people aren't going to be living through the same narrative, they are going through their own processes in life and experiencing stuff completely separate from your narrative, and quite likely contradicting it. in affect, by closing the barrel and saying you no thank you for information - your full - you are mentally killing off anyone it concerns. you have the answers you want in your head, as far as their real circumstances are concerned, you are effectively telling them you do no longer give a shit (probably in nicer words).

    this to me comes in direct contrast with my Fe:
    you can't care about others if you don't care about the reality in which everyone else exist. and i'm somewhat fine with that when it stands on it's own - but not when the narrative you try to force is about caring for others.

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