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View Poll Results: Is INFJ or INTJ the craziest?

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  • INFJ

    23 74.19%
  • INTJ

    8 25.81%
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  1. #31
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I usually present conclusions, along with at least an outline of the facts and reasoning that support them. I try to be good about identifying assumptions, speculations, and personal value judgments. I have no problem when people ask for clarification, or refute my conclusions specifically, with their own reasoning. Unfortunately, not too many people online do a good job of that kind of critique. I see more emotional or empty objections (various unsupported forms of "you're wrong"), and occasionally personal attacks/insults. Very unsatisfying.
    To be fair though, I don't think most INTJs do this. If have to convince others of something, I will do some of these things because I realize the importance in achieving the end result that I need to get. I will provide reasoning if asked. You're right about the emotional or dismissive objectives - which appear just as unfounded as I presume we can sometimes appear. I think on average INTJs have a bigger problem with doing that than INTPs. A Ti laden argument can be draining for me to read through.

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  2. #32
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    For what it's worth, you're not one of the INTJs I was talking about, and I actually really enjoy having discussions with you.

    I guess the crux of the matter is that the discussion tactics of some INTJs annoy me, while the discussion tactics of other INTJs do not.

    I think the ones that annoy me are stuck in some kind Ni-Fi thing.
    I think there is also a lack of patience with the Ti style of argument. All that detailed logic flys in the face of the way an INTJ's cognitive functions work. Ni converges on an answer and Te is used to validate that against the outer world and Fi against the individual's values. They simply don't think the way you do. Both types generally have really thought through things pretty deeply but in a dramatically different way so it naturally can lead to lack of understanding.

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  3. #33
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    To be fair though, I don't think most INTJs do this. If have to convince others of something, I will do some of these things because I realize the importance in achieving the end result that I need to get. I will provide reasoning if asked.
    I suspect this is something INTJs get better at as we mature. Younger ones may be more ready to spout Ni conclusions without bothering to provide (or even think through) the Te underpinnings. My thought processes work in the same order, I just hold off presenting anything until I am willing to provide some support for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I think there is also a lack of patience with the Ti style of argument. All that detailed logic flys in the face of the way an INTJ's cognitive functions work. Ni converges on an answer and Te is used to validate that against the outer world and Fi against the individual's values. They simply don't think the way you do. Both types generally have really thought through things pretty deeply but in a dramatically different way so it naturally can lead to lack of understanding.
    Not all INTPs bother even trying to present a logical argument. Some resort to the kind of empty or emotional dismissal I mentioned earlier.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #34
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I suspect this is something INTJs get better at as we mature. Younger ones may be more ready to spout Ni conclusions without bothering to provide (or even think through) the Te underpinnings. My thought processes work in the same order, I just hold off presenting anything until I am willing to provide some support for it.
    I think you are right about this and I agree with you that we get better at it as we mature. On the flip side, the problem is that you can't always do what you suggest (in terms of holding off presenting anything). In my work for example things are too dynamic. I am pulled into one thing after another at a moments notice and have to react. There is one issue to be resolved, then another problem that has to be solved and then an opportunity that I have to react to and key meeting that's been set up with a client to discuss a topic then I'm reviewing lots of other people's work. I spend a lot of time in meetings often without a much time to prepare for them. There simply isn't time to hold off on presenting my thoughts or point of view. For years when I was younger, I would wish to be an extravert because these situations seemed easier for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Not all INTPs bother even trying to present a logical argument. Some resort to the kind of empty or emotional dismissal I mentioned earlier.
    True

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  5. #35
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I think you are right about this and I agree with you that we get better at it as we mature. On the flip side, the problem is that you can't always do what you suggest (in terms of holding off presenting anything). In my work for example things are too dynamic. I am pulled into one thing after another at a moments notice and have to react. There is one issue to be resolved, then another problem that has to be solved and then an opportunity that I have to react to and key meeting that's been set up with a client to discuss a topic then I'm reviewing lots of other people's work. I spend a lot of time in meetings often without a much time to prepare for them. There simply isn't time to hold off on presenting my thoughts or point of view. For years when I was younger, I would wish to be an extravert because these situations seemed easier for them.
    Practice, practice, practice! First, I'm sure you, like I, have developed enough confidence in our intuitions that we know when we can present them without this foundation, because we know it is there. That being said, you might be surprised how good a case you can make for something in just the couple of minutes it takes to hear out the speaker before you. This is a bit like that Toastmasters' trick of lining up your three main points as you walk to the front of the room to give an impromptu speech.

    Once I sketched out to a middle manager a plan for relocating my group's entire lab facilities that I had worked out in the 5 minutes we had been talking. He received it as if I had been working on it for weeks. Because I could easily "see" the end result and the underlying motivation/benefit, and knew the priorities and constraints in my organization, as well as how this manager operated, the words necessary to flesh out and support the overall idea just fell into place as we talked.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #36
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    INFJ crazy is without question the Rolls Royce of crazy. Reality fucks with INTJs too much for them to even close to the level of batshit insanity I've seen in some INFJs.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  7. #37
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    INFJ crazy is without question the Rolls Royce of crazy. Reality fucks with INTJs too much for them to even close to the level of batshit insanity I've seen in some INFJs.
    You are just lucky enough to have not met the right INTJ yet!

  8. #38

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    INFJ's Inside. INTJ's Outside. Don't know too many of either, but I seen a whole lot more INTJ's seeming content, but it's not a definite decision. I see myself as crazy sometimes.

  9. #39
    Riva
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    INFJs have more votes than INTJs? I always knew that INFJs were undeserving of love and shit but this?

    Then again I know only a very few INFJs from rl. One of them is bat shit crazy but mostly so because it's a he and we all know it's a curse to be a INFJ male. However he is one of the kindest, sanest persons I know.

  10. #40
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    INTJ- If you hurt the one I love, I will kill you and no one would ever find the body, because I don't love too many people.
    INFJ- If you hurt the one they love, I will kill you and everyone will know where to find the body because she was the love of my life.
    ENTJ - You will never get the chance to hurt the one I love, because I will figure it out and hire someone to kill you because I WIN ALWAYS.

    My ex-husband- INTJ
    My ex-boyfriend-INFJ
    My present boyfriend-ENTJ

    INFJ's are wonderful and INTJs are too (if you realize that they really do love you)--As far as ENTJs...jury is still out on that one!!

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