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View Poll Results: Is INFJ or INTJ the craziest?

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  • INFJ

    23 74.19%
  • INTJ

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  1. #21
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    The INTJs as you say may be more subjective about their beliefs on the nature of things, go more with what they wish for rather than what fits with the world.



    Seeing things from a more tentative perspective versus a more tenacious view could be less crazy, as there's more of a questioning about things, which could lead to a more clear knowledge than just fighting for whatever productions spring forth from the self. Based on that, Fi would be a better supplement to craziness than Ti.
    Ti is more rational...
    Te-dom just acts with out inner thinking or outer knowlege gathering, it seems...
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    Ti is more rational...
    Te-dom just acts with out inner thinking or outer knowlege gathering, it seems...
    For the first, yes.
    For the second, incomplete.

    Action and decisiveness is there for them sure, but many with the good Te I know are very good at referencing external frameworks.

  3. #23
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Agreed. At least we INTJs tend to have a method in our madness, and Te is pretty good at reality checking.
    Yes, there's that, but it seems to me that not all INTJs are equally good at using with Te. A lot of them think they are, but it's really just Fi convictions and things that they just "know". For this type of INTJ, the only utility Te ever seems to have is cherry-picking data to support Ni-Fi insights/convictions.

    I find that, on the internet, the INTJ with shitty Te is more common than the ones with good Te. I'd say you seem to be one of the ones with good Te.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    The INTJs as you say may be more subjective about their beliefs on the nature of things, go more with what they wish for rather than what fits with the world.
    Yes... exactly. And that seems crazy and illogical, and often irritating.


    Seeing things from a more tentative perspective versus a more tenacious view could be less crazy, as there's more of a questioning about things, which could lead to a more clear knowledge than just fighting for whatever productions spring forth from the self.
    It may not lead to more clear knowledge, but it will lead to knowledge that is less likely to be false.

    I think constantly questioning things is less likely to be productive, but the flip side of that is that it is less likely to be harmful.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  4. #24
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    I'd say NF's in general tend to be less likely (compared to Thinkers) to fact-check to make sure their assumptions are grounded in reality to some degree. Some will lose sight of what is over what they believe should be, as well. Of course, I'm speaking terribly broadly here.

    Then again, INTJ's can have very unrealistic expectations, with low patience.

    All depends on how one defines crazy, really.


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  5. #25
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    For the first, yes.
    For the second, incomplete.

    Action and decisiveness is there for them sure, but many with the good Te I know are very good at referencing external frameworks.
    I see...
    So, I postulate that Ti comes from long, gentle, contemplation about the mysteries of the universe...
    ...and Te is just "roughing" it and slapping down "What works"
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  6. #26
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I think INFJs would have a higher frequency of craziness but a crazy INTJ would be crazier than a crazy INFJ . The crazy INTJ would also likely do more damage because they are less likely to care about other people - but of course there is Hitler who was an INFJ.
    I second this.
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  7. #27
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Yes, there's that, but it seems to me that not all INTJs are equally good at using with Te. A lot of them think they are, but it's really just Fi convictions and things that they just "know". For this type of INTJ, the only utility Te ever seems to have is cherry-picking data to support Ni-Fi insights/convictions.

    I find that, on the internet, the INTJ with shitty Te is more common than the ones with good Te. I'd say you seem to be one of the ones with good Te.
    This is a very interesting set of comments. I believe you are right about observing the Fi convictions and how those can be less than optimal. I'd never thought about that much. I don't think your second bolded comment seems correct however. INTJs develop Te pretty early. They have to.

    There is a common conflict between INTJs and INTPs that I've seen online which in my experience happens less in real life. It seems evident to me that the INTPs get frustrated with the INTJs (more than the other way around). I think it has to do with the fact that INTJs and INTPs share no common functions in their top 4. I also have the sense that INTPs sometimes also feel that Ni + Te produces sloppy thinking which is especially noticeable to them in the context of online discussions/debates. The thing I would keep in mind above all is that INTJs truly are dominant perceivers as much as they might appear to the outside world to be different than that.

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  8. #28
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Agreed. At least we INTJs tend to have a method in our madness, and Te is pretty good at reality checking.
    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    This is a very interesting set of comments. I believe you are right about observing the Fi convictions and how those can be less than optimal. I'd never thought about that much. I don't think your second bolded comment seems correct however. INTJs develop Te pretty early. They have to.
    That's possible. It might be an example of the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I can't think of a better metaphor, sorry.




    I also have the sense that INTPs sometimes also feel that Ni + Te produces sloppy thinking which is especially noticeable to them in the context of online discussions/debates.
    Oh, I definitely feel this way when I have discussions with some INTJs. It only bugs me more when, rather than acknowledging this, and either providing clarification, refutations, or retractions, they'll merely throw in some bullshit comment about how I'm not seeing the light or "being objective" and imply that the fault lies with me for not being "intelligent" enough to understand what they are saying. That's when they don't try and ignore the thing entirely by suddenly trying to shift to some new "fact" that has suddenly become more important.


    The thing I would keep in mind above all is that INTJs truly are dominant perceivers as much as they might appear to the outside world to be different than that.
    Oh, that's obvious to me, and why the Socionics way makes more sense to me. The thing is, some INTJs speak as though they aren't fluid dynamic percievers, but rather hard-nosed judging extraverted thinkers. They don't have opinions, thoughts or beliefs, merely "facts" that they have discovered.

    That's when they start to annoy me. I realized recently that I must have been arguing with INTJs for a long time, because it's not the first time I've gotten annoyed by someone throwing out something totally subjective and unsupported, and said that I am "clouded by personal bias" or "not objective" for not simply rolling with their unsupported assertions.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  9. #29
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Oh, I definitely feel this way when I have discussions with some INTJs. It only bugs me more when, rather than acknowledging this, and either providing clarification, refutations, or retractions, they'll merely throw in some bullshit comment about how I'm not seeing the light or "being objective" and imply that the fault lies with me for not being "intelligent" enough to understand what they are saying. That's when they don't try and ignore the thing entirely by suddenly trying to shift to some new "fact" that has suddenly become more important.

    Oh, that's obvious to me, and why the Socionics way makes more sense to me. The thing is, some INTJs speak as though they aren't fluid dynamic percievers, but rather hard-nosed judging extraverted thinkers. They don't have opinions, thoughts are beliefs, merely "facts" that they have discovered.
    I usually present conclusions, along with at least an outline of the facts and reasoning that support them. I try to be good about identifying assumptions, speculations, and personal value judgments. I have no problem when people ask for clarification, or refute my conclusions specifically, with their own reasoning. Unfortunately, not too many people online do a good job of that kind of critique. I see more emotional or empty objections (various unsupported forms of "you're wrong"), and occasionally personal attacks/insults. Very unsatisfying.
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  10. #30
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I usually present conclusions, along with at least an outline of the facts and reasoning that support them. I try to be good about identifying assumptions, speculations, and personal value judgments. I have no problem when people ask for clarification, or refute my conclusions specifically, with their own reasoning. Unfortunately, not too many people online do a good job of that kind of critique. I see more emotional or empty objections (various unsupported forms of "you're wrong"), and occasionally personal attacks/insults. Very unsatisfying.
    For what it's worth, you're not one of the INTJs I was talking about, and I actually really enjoy having discussions with you.

    I guess the crux of the matter is that the discussion tactics of some INTJs annoy me, while the discussion tactics of other INTJs do not.

    I think the ones that annoy me are stuck in some kind Ni-Fi thing.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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