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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
    My E is an odd thing. I had 13+ years of intensive leadership training when I was younger ... felt very comfortable leading people, speaking in front of groups, and taking charge. So ... what do I do when I leave the military and find a new career? I become an extreme introvert again, shunning managment or any leadership roles. I've been like that for the past 15 years now. I want to be neither a leader nor a follower. Very odd that this is ingrained so thoroughly in me that even indoctrination cannot make a dent in it.
    I find that I lose my E somewhat if I don't practice it regularly. I lost it after the military, then joined a social group (Mensa) and relearned it in a social setting rather deliberately and by the numbers. It gets rusty if I don't use it for a while, but I can always reactivate it by reviewing the numbers.

    I'm at the stage in my life now where my tertiary Si is developing naturally. It is a lot of fun taking part in more sensory aspects of life ... although I do need to watch it a little with the alcohol. I've recently taken up photography and hope to expand on that as an enjoyable past time.
    My wife and I have been doing ballroom dancing for years, and we're good enough that I can fall into the zone and just enjoy the motion of the complicated moves. Reminds me of when I was a teenager and I was an expert downhill skier.

    A few drinks while ballroom dancing is a good thing. The alcohol loosens me up, and the dancing works off the alcohol.

    FL

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I find that I lose my E somewhat if I don't practice it regularly. I lost it after the military, then joined a social group (Mensa) and relearned it in a social setting rather deliberately and by the numbers. It gets rusty if I don't use it for a while, but I can always reactivate it by reviewing the numbers.



    My wife and I have been doing ballroom dancing for years, and we're good enough that I can fall into the zone and just enjoy the motion of the complicated moves. Reminds me of when I was a teenager and I was an expert downhill skier.

    A few drinks while ballroom dancing is a good thing. The alcohol loosens me up, and the dancing works off the alcohol.

    FL
    OK ... at the risk of derailing this thread ... in what branch of the military did you serve? I found that my INTP type was a disastrous match for the military ... nothing but the T fit. So ... I have to ask ... how did you fare?

    The ballroom dancing thing appeals to me, or salsa dancing. I think my wife and I might take it up as well. We liked going to a local Latin club here a while back. Might take it up again on a more instructional level. Getting more in touch with my S.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alesia View Post
    It's to avoid a whole host of things. And your whole post makes a testiment to that. If you assume that Sensing and Judging types are resistant to change then what question would you ask to verify reistance to change? And SPs, btw are not resistant to change.
    ....And let the congregation say....Amen! Alesia you're right on point, and something that I have attempted to convey for years. SPs do not resist change, however we do not find it necessary to make changes for their own sake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alesia View Post
    Perceivers often have trouble with procrastination but that is not the defining point of "perceiving". And intellectualism in not specifically an iNtuitive trait. I think this is a good site to get the basics. Why not take a look?
    I have read through parts of that site, and it is good, as is INFJ.COM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I went to this Best Fit Type and looked at INTP on a team. I must say that I identify with this type particularly in the section that deals with how INTPs deal with change.
    I wished I had purchased Dr. Berens and Dario Nardi's booklets initially. It would have cut down on all of the money I spent on books.

    If anyone has problems with, or attempting to determine their best fit type, you can't beat Berens' system. It's quite simple 1)validate your temperament; then 2)validate your interaction style. The rest falls into place. The good thing is, you don't have force choiced assessments, but determine your true type in understanding an overall theme of your type. This is particularly important for us who dominate with Ti, since there is a tendency to dissect sentences and paragraphs, and to over analyze questionnaires.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
    OK ... at the risk of derailing this thread ... in what branch of the military did you serve? I found that my INTP type was a disastrous match for the military ... nothing but the T fit. So ... I have to ask ... how did you fare?
    You and I exchanged a couple posts about this back a few months ago on the other board. I was in the enlisted ranks in the Marines from 74-78 and then again from 82-85. You wanted to know how an INFP fared in the Marines.

    I basically viewed the enlisted ranks of the military as just one more blue collar job. I didn't get my B.A. until age 32, so I worked a lot of blue collar jobs in my time. For an intelligent person, pretty much all blue collar jobs suck. Being in the enlisted ranks of the military was no worse than any other blue collar job, and I would even say that it was better than many.

    Also, my first enlistment was during an interesting time. The U.S. was still in Vietnam when I joined up (I got sent over there in 1975 for Operation Frequent Wind and the evacuation of Vietnam). The draft had already ended and the military had gone all-volunteer, but the pay was low and no one wanted to join up in case Vietnam heated up again. So the courts allowed criminals to trade in jail time for joining the Marines.

    So the Marine Corps was full of convicts, the staff NCOs were burnt-out combat vets just marking time until they could collect a pension, we had about just about zero budget and all the equipment was busted or outdated, discipline was shot to hell, and no one gave a crap. Frankly, it was kind of fun.

    Also, I ended up in Signals Intelligence (communications intercept) and did constant TDY/TAD or field assignments all over Southeast Asia and the Pacific, on ships, and even as far abroad as Australia and Germany. Whenever I got bored at my parent unit, I just signed up for another TDY or field assignment and headed abroad to somewhere new.

    The second enlistment was a little more stifling than the first. Reagan was giving the military big budgets, the pay was higher, people were starting to volunteer for military duty again, the Marines had tossed out all the convicts and old crazy vets and raised the entrance requirements, and discipline was a lot tighter. But I was a senior sergeant (E-5) by that time, so I called my own shots pretty much.

    Anyway, like I said, I don't think the enlisted experience in the military was any worse than most crappy blue-collar jobs, and it was significantly better in some ways. But I expect it was a different story in the officer ranks where you served.

    The ballroom dancing thing appeals to me, or salsa dancing. I think my wife and I might take it up as well. We liked going to a local Latin club here a while back. Might take it up again on a more instructional level. Getting more in touch with my S.
    Yes, I think it's great quality time together for married couples, too. Get dressed up, take the wife on the town, have a few drinks and move her around the dance floor a bit…

    I took some instruction with my first wife, including some lessons at Fred Astaire. But with my current wife, I just taught her at home some of the steps I remembered or had written down, and then we got a library of dance instruction videos so that we could pick up steps at our own speed. So we're not much on form and style since we haven't had formal instruction together, but we know a lot of dances and steps. We do all the standard Ballroom and Latin dances at a solid intermediate level, plus some regional dances like West Coast Swing, Zydeco, etc.

    The main thing, I've found, is that I need to have my steps and leads down really well. My wife is a great follower and doesn't actually need to practice all that much with me. The lead is the critical part, so practice is more important for me than for her. So after dinner I regularly disappear down into the basement alone with a tall bourbon and sambucca, crank up the music, and go over my steps until I can move through them confidently and smoothly. Then, when we hit the dance floor out in town, it's just up to my wife to keep up with me (which she does very well).

    FL

  6. #36
    Senior Member Nighthawk's Avatar
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    That's right Fine Line ... I remember now.

    I was in the Army (West Point, Armor, and Armored Cavalry) from 1979-1992. It was a mixed bag for me. I was really into it early on ... almost fanatically. I pursued the career very aggressively and was naively certain that I would be a general officer someday. Immersed myself in the art of warfare and tried to learn as much as I could about the craft to become an expert. I even managed to author a few articles and translate some books on armored warfare tactics.

    The military taught me a lot of good things ... tenacity, organization, confidence, follow through, etc. It made me do interesting things, like jump out of airplanes, that I probably never would have done on my own. I also enjoyed living in foreign countries all over Europe and the Middle East. It was interesting experiencing different cultures.

    The longer I remained in uniform however, the more it dulled. It seemed that the primary thing officers did was attend meetings. There were 3-4 meetings per day ... even in the middle of a war. I also grew tired of being held responsible for each and every thing one of my 150 soldiers would do ... from having unprotected sex, to getting drunk. Babysitting was my secondary function ... after attending meetings.

    Innovation and creativity were not highly sought after either. Oh yes, they paid lip service to it, but then promoted the political, business-as-usual types instead. In the patriarchical society of Armor, it also paid huge dividends if your wife played the game. My wife at the time was a P and did not want to play the game ...ergo my career suffered. I saw some very poor performers, who had stellar wives, rise up quickly through the ranks. They are still out here commanding sons and daugthers in Iraq ... and we wonder about the death toll.

    Here is where the MBTI mismatch really came to the forefront. I began to rebel against the S and J structures every chance I could. Unfortunately this took on a negative twist ... with heavy drinking, womanizing, and disobeying whatever orders/regulations I could. Being an officer, I was not accountable for my time (except when in meetings) ... so I would go off and do my own thing quite a lot. The only creative outlet I had was my writing and whatever scraps I could grab. I once developed a linear regression algorithm to forecast ammunition requirements ... but a superior officer told me to shut up when I briefed him about it. He stated that "the book" was written for a reason, and we would go by the book for ammunition requirements. We promptly fell short on ammunition the following month.

    Things finally collapsed for me when I started dealing with a few careerist members of the military aristocracy who would stop at nothing to get ahead. These were all West Point graduates ... some of them up to 5th generation. The USA has military royalty ... they just don't call it that. One of these scions accidentally killed an American soldier during a friendly fire incident ... but did not want to take the heat for it. He pushed the blame off on me, as the first unit commander to enter the area. That was the end of my career ... although I did join forces with the family of the dead soldier to bring out the truth. It took 5 years and hearings before the US Senate ... but the responsible party was finally thrown out of the Army. By that point, the dream had died for me and I wanted nothing more to do with the military. Today, I am happily civilian.

  7. #37
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    Yes, I took the 60 minute MBT1 at work. It was administered by the HR Department for all project managers. I came out INTJ. and when I take all other free online tests, I also come out INTJ.

    "I" - I was "out of preference" in two areas five. It explains why I am a more extraverted "I". .
    These are the components that I was "out of preference" on with regard to Introvert/Extravert:
    Initiating vs. Receiving : I tend to play the social-initiator role when circumstances require it. I focus on putting others at ease when dealing with me. I'm comfortable initiating in a small group or when people are interested in me. I take the lead when I know people in the group.
    Active as opposed to Reflective: I would rather activitely participate in an event than observe it. I absorb information better when it is presented orally. I would rather discuss a topic than write about it. I'm quite selective in what I read.

    "N" was totally in preference on all five components except I came out balanced on being Concrete vs. Abstract.

    "T" was totally in preference on all five components except that I came out balanced with regard to being Accepting vs. Critical and being Tender vs Tough.

    "J" was totally in preference on all five components except that I came out balanced with regard to being Scheduled vs. Spontaneous.

  8. #38
    Member Alesia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Yes, I've checked that site many times.

    I went to this Best Fit Type and looked at INTP on a team. I must say that I identify with this type particularly in the section that deals with how INTPs deal with change.

    Paragraph deleted by Alesia.This is almost exactly what I'm like.

    The way I'm like is that I don't want to start a new routine, but I do adapt to it reasonably easily.

    With that said, would a dominant Introverted function be more inclined to resist change?
    Well, looking at that area that you quoted, it is one paragraph from many paragraphs. Plus, INTPs do not resist change that seems illogical because thier primary function is Ti and they will resist on a logic point. This is Ti at work not J. It's the same thing for INFPs if their is a strong value that is being violated that the Fi of INFPs deems "wrong". They will resist and insist.

    You seem to be questioning your J/P. From all that I've seen you write, you appear to be J. What do you think? Take a look at the INTJ section of that site. Tell me what you don't agree with.

    Edit: Okay, I deleted the section you quoted because it seemed to chop off my post. This has happened to me before. Sometime a quote from another site doesn't seem to "gell" and will prevent a post from appearing. And then if I just don't quote from that site, wahlah! It appears. So, sorry, please refer to your original post for that paragraph.

  9. #39
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    Yeah, I kinda identify with that.

    I like a routine and repetition lifestyle because it enables me to contemplate on my ideas.

    At work, I tend to enjoy simple, repetitious tasks that let me zone out and detach my brain from my body so that I'm free to indulge in fantasy. I like my life to be predictable for the same reason.

    But at the same time, I don't really pay attention to putting things in my external environment in order.

    I rarely clean up after myself, and I'm less concerned with having my external environment looking nice as long as bigger stuff like furniture is always where I left it.

    So is it possible that the kind of behavior I mentioned above sound more like Ni rather than Ti?

  10. #40
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    Yes, quite. I have a very close INFJ freind who is dominant Ni, and he is very scheduled. His organizes his thoughts and own interests very much. He is writing a book for example, and has quotes and ideas that are very organized. It's like pulling teath to get him to change his "schedule" and do something else he had not planned on. He complains that he is so involved on what he is going to do that he has trouble being in the present. He's very J.

    And yeah, he's spaced out a lot. I'm spaced out a lot. But he really, really has trouble with going into another world. I see him do that while with our friends.

    But when it comes to his environment, he really doesn't care for keeping things neat.

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