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  1. #41
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Is it not an Ne thing?

    I don't know. It got its reputation as being a crazy function for a reason, even if what I've read from Jung were irrelevant and all we had to go on was 'common knowledge'.

    Ne is like the consciousness untethered. I don't think many would disagree with that statement. This quality extends into the social realm. It can really act without regard to the systems it's in, and what's weird is that Jung explicity places this quality on Ne and not Se.

    Yet Se has the reputation it does...

    Like usual in life - Memes 1, Facts 0
    I think that @msg_v2 has the right idea with Ne being global and Se being local. And therein lays the issue both in how they are perceived online and the disconnection with reality. Se is a localised perception function it absorbs the information at hand to help to make a decision. Ne is a global perception function it grabs every pattern it has ever made and tries to apply it to the situation, usually unconsciously. That is the reason Se has the reputation it does because it is so very localised the further away you view it from the more absurd it seems, the more disconnected it is from the events around it. Ne has the opposite effect going on the closer you are to it the more it seems so very strange, but the further away you look at it from the more sense it makes. Which let’s face it creates a strange situation where in reality Se makes perfect sense and Ne is just plain mad, and through the disconnected looking glass that is online communication, the reverse is true.

    As for the example about your sister, that was kind of a terrible example of being absurd. I mean if I was to speculate, and make grand assumptions, I would guess that you are from the southern states of America. Somewhere in the Bible Belt, and that the performance had more to do with showing their contempt and anger at the current social and political conventions of the state and area; mainly because chanting the same thing over and over is usually a sign of intense anger.

    At the OP, the thing to remember about Ne dominant and auxiliaries is that their absurd statements are often either a metaphor or an analogy for something else it’s a tool for expressing multiple points of view and layered meaning as succinctly as possible.
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dancing_Queen View Post
    The keyword in your post is reputation .

    I think you're focusing too much on theory and too little on actual people. Your information on Ne is spot on, but nobody is a cognitive function, no matter how often we use it.

    I'm an ENFP with high social skills, and one who hates rudeness and attention whoring even in the slightest way. But two out of four ESFPs I now and one ESTP fit the description you posted.

    Dealing with real life examples of personality types definitely shows Jung was right in telling people to not take his theories too seriously
    Telling an introverted thinker not to take a theory seriously is telling a rainbow not to shine.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I look at Ne as being global, and Se as being local. Maybe you consider that to be reiterating the "big picture" thing you so despise, but wouldn' t you agree that Ne seems less "in the moment"? I think Ne seems random because it's less confined to the immediate environment.
    Se is to monk as Ne is to politician. Take that as you may.

  3. #43
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Telling an introverted thinker not to take a theory seriously is telling a rainbow not to shine.



    Se is to monk as Ne is to politician. Take that as you may.
    ARe you calling Ne monk-like? Because Se isn't. Se doms aren't at any rate. Se doms, like Bill Clinton, would make better politicians.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    ARe you calling Ne monk-like? Because Se isn't. Se doms aren't at any rate. Se doms, like Bill Clinton, would make better politicians.
    Of Ne:

    "Merchants, contractors, speculators, agents, politicians, etc., commonly belong to this type."

    Jung doesn't state who would make a better politician. It states the type of character who makes up politicians. This is chiefly the extroverted intuition type, the more "externally motivated" of the two intuitors, hence their status as politicians vs. prophets.

    Of Se:

    "The specially compulsive character of the neurotic symptoms represent the unconscious counterweight to the laisser aller morality of a purely sensational attitude, which, from the standpoint of rational judgment, accepts without discrimination, everything that happens."

    Particularly the latter.

    I will be back to address your post and supply more general thinking, Dr Mobius.

  5. #45
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    I thought it was a trap for some reason, ha.

    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Of Ne:

    "Merchants, contractors, speculators, agents, politicians, etc., commonly belong to this type."

    Jung doesn't state who would make a better politician. It states the type of character who makes up politicians. This is chiefly the extroverted intuition type, the more "externally motivated" of the two intuitors, hence their status as politicians vs. prophets.
    What aspect of a politican is most relevant to Ne? Someone who shapes or create reality? Or someone who shifts between identities, always juggling them? Or as tricksters?



    "The specially compulsive character of the neurotic symptoms represent the unconscious counterweight to the laisser aller morality of a purely sensational attitude, which, from the standpoint of rational judgment, accepts without discrimination, everything that happens."
    You should have qualified that by saying a Buddhist monk. I thought you were referring to the tendency of monks, Christian or Buddhist, to kind of detach or retreat from the world. I also thought you were trying to test me, for some reason. I suppose I did this because I was confused. That comparison of Se as monk like did not make sense to me at all from the lens I was using. So I figured that you were trying to test me to see how much I knew. I suppose I failed.


    Thus matching up with what you said earlier about being disconnected. Really, I didn't realize that what you mean by "monk" is a Zen like attitude of accepting everything that happens. That is somewhat Se like, I would agree.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Jung doesn't state who would make a better politician. It states the type of character who makes up politicians.
    that's sort of funny, didn't he type himself as Ni dom? considering he was the chairman of the international psychoanalytical association in zurich... does that not count as a politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    ARe you calling Ne monk-like? Because Se isn't. Se doms aren't at any rate. Se doms, like Bill Clinton, would make better politicians.
    but are the successful politicians of the beginning of 20th century switzerland the same as end of the 20th century america?

  7. #47
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    that's sort of funny, didn't he type himself as Ni dom? considering he was the chairman of the international psychoanalytical association in zurich... does that not count as a politics?



    but are the successful politicians of the beginning of 20th century switzerland the same as end of the 20th century america?
    Excellent point. This had occurred to me, but for some reason I didn't bring it up. I don't know enough about ancient Switzerland to answer, but it would be worth looking into.

    I think the role of television vs. radio and newspapers should not be overlooked. Perhaps the internet will change which politicians are successful yet again. (This is starting to sound like a Mole post. )
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  8. #48
    Senior Member Dancing_Queen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Telling an introverted thinker not to take a theory seriously is telling a rainbow not to shine.



    Se is to monk as Ne is to politician. Take that as you may.
    There's where we Ne driven differ from you Ni driven folks. We do love theories, we even make our own, but nothing is sacred or has to be proven and set on stone. It's mostly about having fun with the possibilities, not needing to nail people down to something.

    Let's agree to disagree, I seriously detest these kind of titles when related to MBTI.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I thought it was a trap for some reason, ha.

    What aspect of a politican is most relevant to Ne? Someone who shapes or create reality? Or someone who shifts between identities, always juggling them? Or as tricksters?
    Well, look at the group in wider context. Merchants, contractors, speculators, agents. What do all these types have in common?

    I would think "propagators" to be a fine term, and I'm interested to know what you can come up with.

    You should have qualified that by saying a Buddhist monk. I thought you were referring to the tendency of monks, Christian or Buddhist, to kind of detach or retreat from the world. I also thought you were trying to test me, for some reason. I suppose I did this because I was confused. That comparison of Se as monk like did not make sense to me at all from the lens I was using. So I figured that you were trying to test me to see how much I knew. I suppose I failed.

    Thus matching up with what you said earlier about being disconnected. Really, I didn't realize that what you mean by "monk" is a Zen like attitude of accepting everything that happens. That is somewhat Se like, I would agree.
    Nah, I don't really test. What you see is what you get.

    Monk - A member of a religious community of men typically living under vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience.

    "This need not be in any way a pleasurable reinforcement, since this type is not a common voluptuary; he merely desires the strongest sensation, and this, by his very nature, he can receive only from without." - Jung

    An example of Se, here is a quote from Pi filmmaker Darren Aronofsky:

    "I walked out of The Matrix ... and I was thinking, 'What kind of science fiction movie can people make now?"

    It was as if he at once recognized he encountered a once in a life time sensory experience, an entire culmination of perfect storytelling and execution only done a small handful of times every generation. This is what Se strives for: powerful, meaningful experience - to really bond with the universe.

    Ne... Ne is something different. Maybe it is a self-contained bundle of satisfaction, which is kinda what I was getting at the beginning of my participation in this thread.

    Furthermore, nothing Jung writes precludes an abnormal "presence" in reality. It is all abstractly written and conceptualized, nothing going so far as to explicitly entail Se "doesn't lose its keys, its lunch, or why it drove fifteen miles with its emergency break on".

    About an hour ago I poured flour into my Kool-Aid, thinking it was sugar. Am I any less "Se" for such occurrences? My studies point to naught.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    that's sort of funny, didn't he type himself as Ni dom? considering he was the chairman of the international psychoanalytical association in zurich... does that not count as a politics?

    but are the successful politicians of the beginning of 20th century switzerland the same as end of the 20th century america?
    I think the very act of politicking itself has gone unchanged since its inception: convincing a group of people you know what will objectively satisfy their conditional interests with the greatest propensity.

    As for Jung's type, again, prophets and politicians aren't so far off - presuming he did type himself Ni. I know I've read it (and heard it repeated) that he identified with sensing more in his older age. But I wouldn't quote myself on it. I read this many moons ago, and haven't been able to find it since.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dancing_Queen View Post
    There's where we Ne driven differ from you Ni driven folks. We do love theories, we even make our own, but nothing is sacred or has to be proven and set on stone. It's mostly about having fun with the possibilities, not needing to nail people down to something.

    Let's agree to disagree, I seriously detest these kind of titles when related to MBTI.
    Okay.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Ribonuke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I think it's actually mean to be Absurdity. Personally, I had no knowledge of the philosophical implications of the term.
    Oh, oops, my bad. ^^;; Yeah, I didn't mean in the context of philosophy; I was just using it as a way to try to explain the type of humor I was talking about.

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