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Is "sharing your feelings" better than "troubleshooting"?

Ghost of the dead horse

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Many of the marital guides certainly think so. As in, women supposedly like to share their feelings, and the man should listen to them in an understanding fashion without trying to fix things away.

I certainly haven't read any advice to the contrary. Imagine if there were: "woman, do understand that the man finds this sharing of feelings woefully ineffective use of time. A man will really want to fix everything and get on with it. You'd be best adviced to go all along and let your problems be fixed. "

So, as there's lot of advice of the form A, but none of the form B, the general public certainly thinks more highly of "sharing your feelings" than it does of "troubleshooting".

I rest my case.
 

Lexicon

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I'd say it's a bit more complicated than that, but people may tend to overcategorize when attempting to verbally break it down.

Typically either party would be on the same page, just one is focusing more immediately on the emotional impact of the situation, seeking to troubleshoot to resolve such feelings, while the other is immediately troubleshooting to avoid acknowledging their feelings, or to neutralize the emotional impact. I can't say women are necessarily going to always be the more emotional across the board. I've encountered precisely the opposite, many times. I've also seen couples who both react emotionally before troubleshooting- they seem to take longer to collect their thoughts, but if they're emotionally healthy people, they still are capable of coming up with viable solutions, in the end. Also, a logical solution is only applicable when it can actually be executed. If there is emotional discourse, unrest, someone feels overlooked, then that solution sits on a shelf, and isn't particularly useful at all, sometimes.

Overall, I don't think one is "better" than the other, or more or less effective. Same results via different routes, or expression, imo.
 

Vilku

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UHH.. both? i dont think its gender related at all. i guess we all need both of them. having just one would lead to confusion.
 

five sounds

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In my experience, sharing feelings is a good first step. It helps establish whether there actually is a problem or if there's just been a miscommunication or something. If once all the feelings get hashed out, a remaining problem is identified, then you troubleshoot. This is good because the emotions are dealt with separately, and each person can work to be sensitive to the other's needs and feelings while they come up with a solution.
 

Amargith

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[MENTION=5159]Lexicon[/MENTION] Precisely.

Wailing forever aint going to get you anywhere, true, but look at it this way:

The acknowledgement of those feelings, the feeling validated that someone understands your emotional upheaval, recognizes and empathizes with your situation is in and of itself addressing a problem.

If, as in your scenario, the man takes 1 minute to let her rant, 10 seconds to validate her state and show understanding, he actually *gives* her what she needs to get into gear. It resolves the problem of those emotions blocking the way to fixing the problem. It isn't time wasted, it is a crucial step in addressing the problem. You can either take 1.10 min to fix said tiny problem and have a partner who can actively help you resolve the situation, or have a) an emotional gap between your partner and you that you'll have to address later or have fester in your relationship + b) a partner who won't be capable of pulling her weight and who will effectively be a burden to you as you attempt to resolve the situation.

Now which one seems like a more efficient use of time to you? :thinking:

Ignoring the problem aint going to make it go away. And just because you feel more adept at addressing a logistical, mental, practical or whatever problem than an emotional, doesn't mean you get to pretend emotional problems are all in someone elses head. They still require addressing. And they will come to bite you in the ass. Not to mention they are so *easy* to address; all you have to do is listen :wink:

Lastly, you think your partner doesnt do the same with you when you go on a rant (like this thread btw), or have a though or get angry at something? It is expressed in a different emotional state, but letting you vent is step 1) in taking productive action toward resolving whatever is causing you said frustration :wink:

In essence...we are listening to you, reading your entire rant and only then offering our angles and perspectives, effectively giving you the information you need to mull things over and resolve this conflict within your head ;)
 

Nijntje

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Idk. Sometimes you just want to vent over something and other times you are looking for feedback/troubleshooting.

I guess knowing when which is happening is the key
 

Ghost of the dead horse

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Yeah, advice columns wouldn't probably get as many readers if there weren't a little bit of over-simplification and categorization. Probably it's rarely either-or-situation. Even then, I recognize the stress when both parties want things handled their way. I understand the emphatic note in the advice; anyone who has lot of feelings about something is the weaker party and they need more sympathy. Perhaps its this issue that the advice columnists are trying to take care of. I still don't like them for putting one (and in my opinion, the wrong) approach over the other.
 

Lexicon

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Yeah, advice columns wouldn't probably get as many readers if there weren't a little bit of over-simplification and categorization. Probably it's rarely either-or-situation. Even then, I recognize the stress when both parties want things handled their way. I understand the emphatic note in the advice; anyone who has lot of feelings about something is the weaker party and they need more sympathy. Perhaps its this issue that the advice columnists are trying to take care of. I still don't like them for putting one (and in my opinion, the wrong) approach over the other.

I'm not sure which columns you read (personally I don't read those, ha), but I think, ideally, it's a matter of meeting one another in the middle, somewhere. The more emotionally reactive person trying to be mindful of what they're experiencing (though, I mean, it can't always just shut off like a lightswitch, unfortunately)- trying to be aware of what's happening & being able to clearly communicate that to a receptive partner can go a long way in terms of the more logical person adjusting how s/he approaches the issue, & discusses a solution with the more immediately emotionally overwhelmed person. Those little nuances in how you say things, and just stating it clearly, like "ey I'm anxious right now, I'm having trouble thinking." -they go a long way when you need to get something done together. If that makes sense.


I've noticed TJ people in particular seem to express similar frustrations, frequently. I've gotta assume it must be that compartmentalized Te maneuvering. It's extremely useful, but only if it's tempered with a reasonable degree of patience & understanding (or at the very least, an effort to understand). The whole core of resolving some problem with a partner is emotionally based; it's because you love one another. It's not just to fix a problem ASAP & move on. You can grow through those experiences, frustrating as they may be. I'll note that ideally the problem would still get solved, just not as "efficiently" as the Te person may prefer. Balance is key.
 

Nijntje

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If i'm just having a rant, I'll usually qualify that first, with something like: "it's okay, im not looking for feedback, i just need to rant" and if i need help, i'll generally add "what do you think?"

you know, to be helpful to both of us.
 
S

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Many of the marital guides certainly think so. As in, women supposedly like to share their feelings, and the man should listen to them in an understanding fashion without trying to fix things away.


I certainly haven't read any advice to the contrary. Imagine if there were: "woman, do understand that the man finds this sharing of feelings woefully ineffective use of time. A man will really want to fix everything and get on with it. You'd be best adviced to go all along and let your problems be fixed. "


So, as there's lot of advice of the form A, but none of the form B, the general public certainly thinks more highly of "sharing your feelings" than it does of "troubleshooting".


I rest my case.



meh. in light of the MBTI, it seems that a lot of those guides go by "women are from ESFJlandia men are from ISTPisles" sort of thing, with the rare switching of the P/J...

but i get what you are saying - and you aren't completely off.. neither are the martial guides wrong for doing so - maybe unfair but practically speaking it's not wrong: assuming the goal of martial guides and marriage counseling is to save the marriage, then if the statistics are correct and 70% of initiators of divorce are women (though other sources range from 66% to 80% - not sure which are more accurate but the consensus is on females being an overwhelming majority), then it's reasonable to conclude that the marriage is more likely to be saved if the woman is less likely to initiate a divorce.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Many of the marital guides certainly think so. As in, women supposedly like to share their feelings, and the man should listen to them in an understanding fashion without trying to fix things away.


Usually, I find this easier than trying to fix the problems they are presenting me with anyway. I usually don't have any answers for that stuff, to begin with. What I can do is listen.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

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Not to mention they are so *easy* to address; all you have to do is listen :wink:
Listening to problems makes me feel as if they were my problems :(
In essence...we are listening to you, reading your entire rant and only then offering our angles and perspectives, effectively giving you the information you need to mull things over and resolve this conflict within your head ;)
Wow, I got all this just by telling about my problems and it was AWESOME! :happy2: The problem-talkers must be on to something.. :thinking:
 

Amargith

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Listening to problems makes me feel as if they were my problems :(

Wow, I got all this just by telling about my problems and it was AWESOME! :happy2: The problem-talkers must be on to something.. :thinking:


:D

You're a sweetheart for empathising to such an extent that they become your problems. And it is clear you aren't the kind of person to sit in your hands but want to address things instantly. And that is commendable. But it is important to realize that sometimes, all you can do is in fact *listen*. The situation itself is something the person in question often only can address. And yes, it is frustrating not to be able to do it for them, but then you won't always be there to do it for them so they need to learn to handle it themselves. That however does not make your part in this tale any less important.

You ARE doing something to fix the problem. You're equipping them to go out there and kick the problem's ass. And that is vital in addressing the situation :)

Lastly, if they decide that they are too afraid, not ready, rather run from the problem, then it is important to remember that you've done your part. It is up to them now. And it is unfortunately also their choice whether or not they actually deal with it. Of course, similarly, it is your choice to tell them then that you don't want to hear about it anymore, since they are refusing to do their part. But a little encouragement and decompression time with a friend/partner/confidant goes a loooong way in most cases.
 

Lexicon

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:D

You're a sweetheart for empathising to such an extent that they become your problems. And it is clear you aren't the kind of person to sit in your hands but want to address things instantly. And that is commendable. But it is important to realize that sometimes, all you can do is in fact *listen*. The situation itself is something the person in question often only can address. And yes, it is frustrating not to be able to do it for them, but then you won't always be there to do it for them so they need to learn to handle it themselves. That however does not make your part in this tale any less important.

You ARE doing something to fix the problem. You're equipping them to go out there and kick the problem's ass. And that is vital in addressing the situation :)

Lastly, if they decide that they are too afraid, not ready, rather run from the problem, then it is important to remember that you've done your part. It is up to them now. And it is unfortunately also their choice whether or not they actually deal with it. Of course, similarly, it is your choice to tell them then that you don't want to hear about it anymore, since they are refusing to do their part. But a little encouragement and decompression time with a friend/partner/confidant goes a loooong way in most cases.

All that. ^^^ :yes:
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Many of the marital guides certainly think so. As in, women supposedly like to share their feelings, and the man should listen to them in an understanding fashion without trying to fix things away.

I certainly haven't read any advice to the contrary. Imagine if there were: "woman, do understand that the man finds this sharing of feelings woefully ineffective use of time. A man will really want to fix everything and get on with it. You'd be best adviced to go all along and let your problems be fixed. "

So, as there's lot of advice of the form A, but none of the form B, the general public certainly thinks more highly of "sharing your feelings" than it does of "troubleshooting".

I rest my case.
This is my issue with the "fix things right away":

If I am facing a problem that makes me feel badly, chances are I have over-analyzed it to death already. I have already thought about the knee-jerk solutions. If I feel badly there is a reason that those problem solving approaches are not enough. The most subjective and emotional reason could be that my system is still flooded with the chemicals of being upset, and so the immediate "problem" is a need to disperse these and quiet my system. If it is a long-standing problem, then there are likely complexities to it that make the obvious solutions ineffective. I need a partner to listen long enough to realize that the solution requires more thought than I have already put into it. If my partner thinks that it can be solved in five seconds, that implies that I'm pretty stupid, doesn't it? He needs to listen long enough to realize that I have already thought of his solutions and there is a reason it isn't that simple.

This is why a partner should listen instead of just jumping into solutions. It is because there is a good chance they simply don't have the answer. Respect. It's about seeing your partner as capable enough to figure it out for themselves. Listening = respect.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

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This is my issue with the "fix things right away":

If I am facing a problem that makes me feel badly, chances are I have over-analyzed it to death already. I have already thought about the knee-jerk solutions. If I feel badly there is a reason that those problem solving approaches are not enough. The most subjective and emotional reason could be that my system is still flooded with the chemicals of being upset, and so the immediate "problem" is a need to disperse these and quiet my system. If it is a long-standing problem, then there are likely complexities to it that make the obvious solutions ineffective. I need a partner to listen long enough to realize that the solution requires more thought than I have already put into it. If my partner thinks that it can be solved in five seconds, that implies that I'm pretty stupid, doesn't it? He needs to listen long enough to realize that I have already thought of his solutions and there is a reason it isn't that simple.

This is why a partner should listen instead of just jumping into solutions. It is because there is a good chance they simply don't have the answer. Respect. It's about seeing your partner as capable enough to figure it out for themselves. Listening = respect.
That's a good point. Maybe there's more to the problem than meets the eye. Someone who's frustrated might not make it obvious that there's a real problem, even if there is. In that case it would be better for the listener not to jump into conclusions. Maybe I'll start doing some nice compromise between troubleshooting and listening.. I'd feel more comfortable listening if I knew the other person isn't totally helpless.

I can't probably avoid getting frustrated from hearing someone who expresses helplessness and lack of trying, so the best bet to get my sympathies is to tell me what they've tried how it turned out. I understand how it feels to work hard at something and get no resuls.

Edit: my point .. maybe I (and anyone) need/needs patience when listening to someone's problems. Maybe the problem isn't trivial, it's just that the clues to reveal it's non-trivial nature hasn't been said yet. WHICH brings me to another thing. I would prefer to hear about the problem's tough points immediately, as I think of that kind of things the best material to keep conversation going. Why to delay telling why the situation is tough?
 

skylights

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the immediate "problem" is a need to disperse these and quiet my system.

Right, this is it exactly! I solve a problem as far as I can go, and that's usually quite far. I don't typically want or need anyone else's help with this, and if I do, I go quickly and independently to those whose help I need. Following that, sometimes I run things by my partner that I know he is especially good with - car maintenance, locations, knowledge about public organizations, and so on. And my partner does have a knack for solving things - he's Ti/Fe and he often comes at a problem in a way that I haven't.

But typically, the way for my partner to troubleshoot IS for him to listen and be emotionally supportive, because often what I am seeking when I share is comfort, not a solution. I think that's why relationship advice materials say this... because emotional needs can be more "invisible" than practical needs.

Santtu said:
Maybe the problem isn't trivial, it's just that the clues to reveal it's non-trivial nature hasn't been said yet. WHICH brings me to another thing. I would prefer to hear about the problem's tough points immediately, as I think of that kind of things the best material to keep conversation going. Why to delay telling why the situation is tough?

I think sometimes it's hard for people to get to the tough points, either because it's emotionally challenging or because they feel like it requires a good deal of information to explain why they are tough. As an ENTJ you probably have more of a gift for concision than most people. I agree with you, incidentally, as I like to get to the Fi/Te nitty-gritty, but I can also have a hard time articulating things when they make me upset.
 
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