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  1. #11
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    Many of the marital guides certainly think so. As in, women supposedly like to share their feelings, and the man should listen to them in an understanding fashion without trying to fix things away.

    Usually, I find this easier than trying to fix the problems they are presenting me with anyway. I usually don't have any answers for that stuff, to begin with. What I can do is listen.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  2. #12
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Not to mention they are so *easy* to address; all you have to do is listen
    Listening to problems makes me feel as if they were my problems
    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    In essence...we are listening to you, reading your entire rant and only then offering our angles and perspectives, effectively giving you the information you need to mull things over and resolve this conflict within your head
    Wow, I got all this just by telling about my problems and it was AWESOME! The problem-talkers must be on to something..

  3. #13
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    Listening to problems makes me feel as if they were my problems

    Wow, I got all this just by telling about my problems and it was AWESOME! The problem-talkers must be on to something..



    You're a sweetheart for empathising to such an extent that they become your problems. And it is clear you aren't the kind of person to sit in your hands but want to address things instantly. And that is commendable. But it is important to realize that sometimes, all you can do is in fact *listen*. The situation itself is something the person in question often only can address. And yes, it is frustrating not to be able to do it for them, but then you won't always be there to do it for them so they need to learn to handle it themselves. That however does not make your part in this tale any less important.

    You ARE doing something to fix the problem. You're equipping them to go out there and kick the problem's ass. And that is vital in addressing the situation

    Lastly, if they decide that they are too afraid, not ready, rather run from the problem, then it is important to remember that you've done your part. It is up to them now. And it is unfortunately also their choice whether or not they actually deal with it. Of course, similarly, it is your choice to tell them then that you don't want to hear about it anymore, since they are refusing to do their part. But a little encouragement and decompression time with a friend/partner/confidant goes a loooong way in most cases.
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  4. #14
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post


    You're a sweetheart for empathising to such an extent that they become your problems. And it is clear you aren't the kind of person to sit in your hands but want to address things instantly. And that is commendable. But it is important to realize that sometimes, all you can do is in fact *listen*. The situation itself is something the person in question often only can address. And yes, it is frustrating not to be able to do it for them, but then you won't always be there to do it for them so they need to learn to handle it themselves. That however does not make your part in this tale any less important.

    You ARE doing something to fix the problem. You're equipping them to go out there and kick the problem's ass. And that is vital in addressing the situation

    Lastly, if they decide that they are too afraid, not ready, rather run from the problem, then it is important to remember that you've done your part. It is up to them now. And it is unfortunately also their choice whether or not they actually deal with it. Of course, similarly, it is your choice to tell them then that you don't want to hear about it anymore, since they are refusing to do their part. But a little encouragement and decompression time with a friend/partner/confidant goes a loooong way in most cases.
    All that. ^^^
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
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  5. #15
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    Many of the marital guides certainly think so. As in, women supposedly like to share their feelings, and the man should listen to them in an understanding fashion without trying to fix things away.

    I certainly haven't read any advice to the contrary. Imagine if there were: "woman, do understand that the man finds this sharing of feelings woefully ineffective use of time. A man will really want to fix everything and get on with it. You'd be best adviced to go all along and let your problems be fixed. "

    So, as there's lot of advice of the form A, but none of the form B, the general public certainly thinks more highly of "sharing your feelings" than it does of "troubleshooting".

    I rest my case.
    This is my issue with the "fix things right away":

    If I am facing a problem that makes me feel badly, chances are I have over-analyzed it to death already. I have already thought about the knee-jerk solutions. If I feel badly there is a reason that those problem solving approaches are not enough. The most subjective and emotional reason could be that my system is still flooded with the chemicals of being upset, and so the immediate "problem" is a need to disperse these and quiet my system. If it is a long-standing problem, then there are likely complexities to it that make the obvious solutions ineffective. I need a partner to listen long enough to realize that the solution requires more thought than I have already put into it. If my partner thinks that it can be solved in five seconds, that implies that I'm pretty stupid, doesn't it? He needs to listen long enough to realize that I have already thought of his solutions and there is a reason it isn't that simple.

    This is why a partner should listen instead of just jumping into solutions. It is because there is a good chance they simply don't have the answer. Respect. It's about seeing your partner as capable enough to figure it out for themselves. Listening = respect.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  6. #16
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    This is my issue with the "fix things right away":

    If I am facing a problem that makes me feel badly, chances are I have over-analyzed it to death already. I have already thought about the knee-jerk solutions. If I feel badly there is a reason that those problem solving approaches are not enough. The most subjective and emotional reason could be that my system is still flooded with the chemicals of being upset, and so the immediate "problem" is a need to disperse these and quiet my system. If it is a long-standing problem, then there are likely complexities to it that make the obvious solutions ineffective. I need a partner to listen long enough to realize that the solution requires more thought than I have already put into it. If my partner thinks that it can be solved in five seconds, that implies that I'm pretty stupid, doesn't it? He needs to listen long enough to realize that I have already thought of his solutions and there is a reason it isn't that simple.

    This is why a partner should listen instead of just jumping into solutions. It is because there is a good chance they simply don't have the answer. Respect. It's about seeing your partner as capable enough to figure it out for themselves. Listening = respect.
    That's a good point. Maybe there's more to the problem than meets the eye. Someone who's frustrated might not make it obvious that there's a real problem, even if there is. In that case it would be better for the listener not to jump into conclusions. Maybe I'll start doing some nice compromise between troubleshooting and listening.. I'd feel more comfortable listening if I knew the other person isn't totally helpless.

    I can't probably avoid getting frustrated from hearing someone who expresses helplessness and lack of trying, so the best bet to get my sympathies is to tell me what they've tried how it turned out. I understand how it feels to work hard at something and get no resuls.

    Edit: my point .. maybe I (and anyone) need/needs patience when listening to someone's problems. Maybe the problem isn't trivial, it's just that the clues to reveal it's non-trivial nature hasn't been said yet. WHICH brings me to another thing. I would prefer to hear about the problem's tough points immediately, as I think of that kind of things the best material to keep conversation going. Why to delay telling why the situation is tough?

  7. #17
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    the immediate "problem" is a need to disperse these and quiet my system.
    Right, this is it exactly! I solve a problem as far as I can go, and that's usually quite far. I don't typically want or need anyone else's help with this, and if I do, I go quickly and independently to those whose help I need. Following that, sometimes I run things by my partner that I know he is especially good with - car maintenance, locations, knowledge about public organizations, and so on. And my partner does have a knack for solving things - he's Ti/Fe and he often comes at a problem in a way that I haven't.

    But typically, the way for my partner to troubleshoot IS for him to listen and be emotionally supportive, because often what I am seeking when I share is comfort, not a solution. I think that's why relationship advice materials say this... because emotional needs can be more "invisible" than practical needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu
    Maybe the problem isn't trivial, it's just that the clues to reveal it's non-trivial nature hasn't been said yet. WHICH brings me to another thing. I would prefer to hear about the problem's tough points immediately, as I think of that kind of things the best material to keep conversation going. Why to delay telling why the situation is tough?
    I think sometimes it's hard for people to get to the tough points, either because it's emotionally challenging or because they feel like it requires a good deal of information to explain why they are tough. As an ENTJ you probably have more of a gift for concision than most people. I agree with you, incidentally, as I like to get to the Fi/Te nitty-gritty, but I can also have a hard time articulating things when they make me upset.

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