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  1. #1
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Default Do feeling functions have anything to do with emotion or are the two seperate?

    I've had this question for a long time: Do feeling functions have anything to do with emotions or not? I ask this because it seems as though feelers tend to be more in touch with their emotions than do thinkers. Also, it seems as though feelers tend to let their emotions weigh more on their decisions than do thinkers. However, Jung doesn't really correlate feelings with emotions and defines feelings as "value-based judgements", so this kind of throws me off. So what do you all think?

    @SolitaryWalker

    You may want to check this thread out. I read a little bit of your book, and this seems like a topic that you would want to comment on.

  2. #2
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    This is my take on it....

    I'll preface this by saying that Feeling is rational reasoning to assign worth/meaning. You decide what is important or makes sense in terms of the human condition/experience. All the judging functions basically classify or organize "data", and in order to assign worth in this way, the data used will involve emotional responses in yourself & others. Of course, Ji & Je are quite different, with Je being more about viability and adjusting to the external, using it as a gauge to make decisions and to act. Ji is more about creating/refining internal concepts & using them as a guide as things arise. So that's why a Fi-dom would be less emotionally expressive than a Fe-dom because the emotion would be internalized as a part of an introverted process.

    Quote Originally Posted by orangeappled post from another forum
    Feeling types may appear more emotional because they USE emotion to clarify meaning. Emotion is used for emphasis, which conveys how important or unimportant the meaning of a statement is. Since Feeling types prefer to judge in an evaluative way, they can be concerned with representing value accurately in their expressions. Emotion is the communication tool for that. Fe types are most likely to use it, as they seek to affect others with their valuations to create consensus, which is important for harmony in relationships. Extroverted types in general tend to seek to affect others more (and are more open to being affected), which tends to make them more expressive. IRL, Fi types often don't show much emotion unless it's in response to a violation of one of their values. After all, getting upset with people is a way to communicate that they've crossed a boundary, right? Their feelings tend to remain hidden also, as they have less desire to affect others with their personal values. It's not uncommon for them to express both feelings and emotions in indirect ways (ie. art). EFPs will more commonly fit the extroverted tendencies though, which is to seek to affect & to be more likely to show emotion.

    Since emotion is a signal for value, Feelers also pay attention to their own & others' emotions a lot, as signs to the significance of something. Just as hunger alerts us to a need to eat, emotions alert us to other needs we have. Figuring out those needs & how to take care of them is a reasoning process though, and that's just one way Feeling evaluates in a rational way. This quote from a science blog sums up the relationship between emotions & rational cognition (Feeling):

    "The function of emotion is to assign value and salience to stimuli and responses -- in essence, to guide cognition by incorporating goals and reward."

    So I don't believe F types necessarily experience emotion more, but they may dwell on it more & use it more, making them appear more affected by emotion.

    Gifts Differing notes that T types see F types as irrational because their own feeling is infantile, and they don't know how to use their emotions as well, so they assume it is the same for everyone else. This leads them to imagine F types are in less control of their emotions, when really its the exact opposite. This can make T types feel like emotional expressions cloud meaning & interfere with communication and thinking, but the F type sees it as clarifying significance of a statement's meaning & as a useful signal to reason on what may be significant.
    I will add that when a function is dominant, it is supposedly most differentiated from non-cognitive stuff like emotions, memories, fantasy, etc. In other words, the individual experiences it as their most "pure thought". The lower down the totem pole, the less differentiated a function will be, hence inferior feeling being very mixed with emotion, and likely why people project their own emotionality onto F-dom. Jung seemed to even suggest that many people may not even have their dominant function all that differentiated. And as you "develop" functions, this would be differentiating them to a greater degree. As a side, this is also why the tertiary is not mentioned by Jung. Or at least to me it seems the idea is the dominant is differentiated (& is the ego), the inferior is an opposing force in the mind & a "gateway" to the unconscious (and when it rears its head the instability can open the way for integration or disintegration - fuzzy on that on), all the other functions are pretty much undifferentiated, and the aux is sort of moderately differentiated (perhaps more so with some individuals) and it supports the dominant by being complementary.

    I think that Nardi experiment showed ENFJs to not experience physiological signs of emotion when expressing their feeling-opinions strongly. This may seem "phony" to some, but really what they are doing is using Feeling rationally & just adding emotional expression to communicate the weight of what they are saying, not acting on or thinking with emotions in the moment. My memory is fuzzy on the details of that, but that's the gist of what I remember reading/hearing.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #3
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    "But nothing disturbs feeling so much as thinking. It is at once intelligible, therefore, that this type should repress thinking as much as possible. This does not mean to say that such a woman does not think at all; on the contrary, she may even think a great deal and very ably, but her thinking is never sui generis; it is, in fact, an Epimethean appendage to her feeling. What she cannot feel, she cannot consciously think."

    In the sense that it does not wish to have the immediate impression of an object superimposed solely with logic, yes, it is emotional.

  4. #4
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    They are separate but related. Emotion is a necessary condition for feeling functions because feeling requires value judgments, which require emotional attachment. A person with no emotions would have no use of the feeling functions; however using a feeling function at any given time does not mean being in a state of emotional arousal- only that emotions exist in the person throughout their life and judgments/evaluations have been made based on emotional attachments.

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    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Consider this, thinkers get angry when things make no sense. And then they get angry that they're angry. I don't know what that means, but it was fun to type.

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    It has been stated over and over again feeling is not emotion. I have a strong suspicion that some if not most T types are mentally incapable of making this distinction. However in regards to your original question I would say they are related. Emotion in relation to feeling is that of one independent variable amongst many in an equation or formula. They have their roots there but become something else. Feeling leads to values and determination of worth which creates abstinence - in other words the many emotions and temptations which run through the psyche are tolerated but not acted upon or embraced when they deviate from what you want or what the collective wants. Another entity stands alone which keeps the whimsical flurry in check and that is feeling.

    By the way SW I loved your infamous INFP description. Talk about pseudo-intellectual nonsense!

  7. #7
    Member unicorncandy's Avatar
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    Feelers =/= feeling emotion. Thinkers =/= thinking about things. Everyone feels emotion. If you claim you don't, you are either a sociopath, out of touch with reality, or lying to yourself. Everyone thinks... I have no idea why I'm responding to this.
    "In matters of truth and justice, there is no difference between large and small problems, for issues concerning the treatment of people are all the same." - Einstein

  8. #8
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    "But nothing disturbs feeling so much as thinking. It is at once intelligible, therefore, that this type should repress thinking as much as possible. This does not mean to say that such a woman does not think at all; on the contrary, she may even think a great deal and very ably, but her thinking is never sui generis; it is, in fact, an Epimethean appendage to her feeling. What she cannot feel, she cannot consciously think."

    In the sense that it does not wish to have the immediate impression of an object superimposed solely with logic, yes, it is emotional.
    Jung designated "Thinking" for a specific, impersonal way of judging, but all of the functions are thinking (cognition). In this quote, he is referring to the specific function of "Thinking", not to rational cognition in general, because Fe falls under rational cognition.

    Feeling is also rational, because it reasons to form judgments/conclusions. Jung even calls Feeling logical, because it seeks a consistency. It does not just reason to form a singular conclusion that stands alone, but considers how all of the values connect & relate because they must make sense in relation to each other. An F-dom will not consciously hold two contradicting values (something P-dom maddeningly may do). The harmonizing of their values is something they spend a lot of time doing. When inner harmony is spoken of for F-dom, this is what is meant, not emotional calm.

    "Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason, just as concepts in general are formed according to these laws" - Jung

    "Feeling is distinguished from affect by the fact that it produces no perceptible physical innervation, ie, neither more nor less than an ordinary thinking process." - Jung

    "Once they (sensation and intuition) are distinguished from feeling, it becomes quite clear that feeling values and feeling judgments - indeed, feelings in general - are not only rational, but can also be seen as logical, consistent, and [as] discriminating as thinking." - Jung


    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    They are separate but related. Emotion is a necessary condition for feeling functions because feeling requires value judgments, which require emotional attachment. A person with no emotions would have no use of the feeling functions; however using a feeling function at any given time does not mean being in a state of emotional arousal- only that emotions exist in the person throughout their life and judgments/evaluations have been made based on emotional attachments.
    No, the evaluations are made with a consideration of what emotions signal, but not based solely on them. Emotions can be wholly dismissed as well.

    I will reiterate that Thinking types tend to project their own inferior Feeling onto F-doms, and being inferior, it is less differentiated from emotion. Dominant Feeling is as purely rational as any thought process can be. Of course an individual's maturity, intelligence, etc, always comes into play.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  9. #9
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
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    in my experience, my best theory on what emotions are is the mixture of F and S functions.

    like istp's when they dont use Fe, can have sensations without emotionality in it.
    and infj's without using Se, can have things like anxiety without experiencing it emotionally.

    but when they mix, then comes emotions.

    my Se has been offline for some years now, so ive gathered a lot of frustration and anxiety that makes me do all kinds of obsessive things to escape it, but i dont really experience them emotionally at all. at times i open up to it, and i just feel an unbearable emotional pain take over my existence.
    healthiness is all about appreciating other peoples inferior function. its like the sore spot no one ever notices, but we desperately wish they did, and if you focus on doing that, youll have many friends. and also learn to appreciate your own inferior function, others wont find it stupid if you show them how cool it is.

    INTJ 4w3 Sp Sx. (i dont believe in tritype. i do believe in learning traits from others.)

    mistakes happen. expect them, and grow from them. look for them, and avoid them.

  10. #10
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    An F-dom will not consciously hold two contradicting values (something P-dom maddeningly may do). The harmonizing of their values is something they spend a lot of time doing. When inner harmony is spoken of for F-dom, this is what is meant, not emotional calm.
    I think values are meaningful in conjunction with specific circumstances, like Kant's Hypothetical Imperative; if you want result R, you must will X in circumstances C. Therefore, different values are held in relation to different circumstances. Many of them hold over the vast majority of circumstances, so they are ones I hold in general (like harmony, truth, beauty, etc.). So I guess you could say I hold conflicting values, because what's useful in one situation may not be the best in another.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    No, the evaluations are made with a consideration of what emotions signal, but not based solely on them. Emotions can be wholly dismissed as well.
    I don't think they can be wholly dismissed, even though I agree with this. Even if notions of value are made in consideration of what emotions signal, emotions in the psyche are still a necessary condition for effective use of the feeling function. Values would be meaningless without emotional attachment- try to think of something you value which does not in any way produce a positive or negative emotional reaction in you. To the degree that you are considering your own or others' well being, you are considering in part an emotional state based on the decision, since positive emotions tend to be associated with high well being and negative (unpleasant ones) with low well being (this is the purpose of them).

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