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  1. #51
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Why are you being needlessly contrary?
    Why is Mole being needlessly inaccurate?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #52
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    "You are the light of my life."
    "You are wise beyond your years."
    "You are the best boss I ever had."
    Dear Coriolis, you are responding to me the same way every time. So this must mean something for you.

    I, though, am finding it irritating.

    Small children are usually pleased to discover that when they ask a question, they will get an answer. So they are inclined to ask questions for the sake of asking questions.

    So I am starting to feel put upon by your questions.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Why is Mole being needlessly inaccurate?
    Good question. I've pondered this myself on a number of occasions. However just because complements follow a certain format doesn't mean that insults don't follow a remotely similar one. I'm starting to wonder - if you're as logical as your other posts would imply and you're making such a mistake - if you're just pushing Victor's buttons in order for him to see a new perspective, regardless of whether he makes a point or not.

  4. #54
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Dear Coriolis, you are responding to me the same way every time. So this must mean something for you.

    I, though, am finding it irritating.

    Small children are usually pleased to discover that when they ask a question, they will get an answer. So they are inclined to ask questions for the sake of asking questions.

    So I am starting to feel put upon by your questions.
    When what you say appears unclear or contradictory, would you prefer to be questioned and have the chance to explain; or to be ignored and assumed ignorant/illogical/etc? If you are getting the same kind of response from me, it might be because you are making the same kind of comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Good question. I've pondered this myself on a number of occasions. However just because complements follow a certain format doesn't mean that insults don't follow a remotely similar one. I'm starting to wonder - if you're as logical as your other posts would imply and you're making such a mistake - if you're just pushing Victor's buttons in order for him to see a new perspective, regardless of whether he makes a point or not.
    No mistake. My list was meant to illustrate exactly your point: that compliments, insults, and neutral statements often follow the same format. One cannot, therefore, define something as an insult by the fact that it begins with "You are . . . ".

    On the other hand, Mole seems to enjoy helping the rest of us see new perspectives. Would it be amiss for us to return the favor now and then?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #55
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    When what you say appears unclear or contradictory, would you prefer to be questioned and have the chance to explain; or to be ignored and assumed ignorant/illogical/etc? If you are getting the same kind of response from me, it might be because you are making the same kind of comment.
    You are plainly intelligent and persistent but I don't want to play this game with you anymore, so I am putting you on Ignore for a while.

  6. #56
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    No mistake. My list was meant to illustrate exactly your point: that compliments, insults, and neutral statements often follow the same format. One cannot, therefore, define something as an insult by the fact that it begins with "You are . . . ".

    On the other hand, Mole seems to enjoy helping the rest of us see new perspectives. Would it be amiss for us to return the favor now and then?
    I think you could have used some more accurate examples that fall outside of the "rule" Mole defined, though yours were tactful. Obviously, forwardly saying "dickhead" is an insult, and the line starts to blur when one makes passive aggressive comments in which direct insults can only be inferred from self-knowledge that the aggressor is aware of as well.

    ------------------------------

    Anyway, as far as Health levels are concerned - I think it's possible to make a scientific estimation of health but since this thread is rife with conflicting opinions about who's healthy and who's not, it's easy to believe that some of the posters like to make equivocations about people they simply dislike.

    I would measure health by the level of self-awareness and lucidity one possesses - in this way one can determine where personal capabilities end and where limitations begin. This defines the basis of how fluidly one can function and adapt over a span of time, and, by extension, how well one can make cost-benefit analyses in terms of what preserves their highest goal.

    Basically, the more one tends to act out of a deadened sense of necessity, the less healthy they are. This can range from manic, impulsive behavior to mindless, zombie like depression.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post


    That's exactly what you did, which is no different than what you claim of "unhealthy" INFPs.



    The problem is your friend, not INFPs.






    Whining about INFPs =/= analysis.

    "Use a dictionary."

    i did, and all that came up was nonsencial.

    "That comment is useless."

    so is your blabbering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    I come here to present new ideas and listen to criticism.

    However I am resolutely opposed to personal insults towards me or any member because personal insults are against the rules and may lead to banning.
    the only thing making them personal is your _misintepretation_ =|
    now stop being a hypocrite, rules dont justify your misunderstanding.

    i used to blame others for being stupid and boring. but ive realized, that was my mistake, i failed to judge that they were boring just because i decided they were. i think youre simply deciding that others are up against you when they arent. meaning, youre focusing too much on judging others when the solution would be to see the flaw in yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    here's a question: unhealthy to who - themselves or to others? and no, those don't always contradict, but they aren't always one of the same either - many types seem to exhibit behaviors that are potentially destructive to others around them but they themselves are in peace with and find value in.
    like serial rapers? =|

    you do realize the irrationality of that premesis?

    if youre unhealthy, your bad influence to _everyone_. including yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    This is the main usage of typology. To give names to people's prejudices.
    @prplchknz

    i dont think so. there are people who can see through their prejudices, and analyze others neutrally without affiliations to any direction.

    @greenfairy

    "does not care whether the receiver takes it as an insult"

    you cant seriously expect me to understand someone whose type i dont know. and i dont think people have the right to misinterprete what i say by their own will, forming it into something which it _isnt_.

    ill tell you from experience: ive been physically attacked, because i smiled. i didnt even smile to this person, he just went all nuts and created paranoid theories about it. how on earth am i supposed to know how a _stranger_ thinks? its impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Isn't there a bit of victim-blaming inherent in here? For example, someone could horribly offend someone else with a tactless "compliment", and then blame them for being too sensitive and not knowing a compliment when they see one. And, by your rule, they'd be in the right.

    I don't see this as function-based, so much as a different philosophy on the subject; compliments and insults being a one-way, vs. a two-way, street. Either way, it doesn't allow for much adaptation to other people's communication styles.


    ^ This!
    i think its an Fe - Fi difference. fe fellas judge comments by intent, Fi fellas judge by their own feelings, not caring of the intent.

    ive been complimented as for being a "normal person" and "a typical male", which is as offending as you can get with me, but due me being Fe, im able to value those compliments for their intent, not their effect.

    i think this communication barrier between opposing judgin directions shouldnt be ignored, it should be understood and acted upon accordingly.

    i think the solution is for Te's to use their Te to personally understand what the Ti thinks of them rather than misinterpreting, and for Fe to use Fe to personally understand how the Fi feels about the world. or idk what im blabbering, my head isnt computing properly right now..

    @Ginkgo

    i think unhealthiness is the over use of your primary function, being all lost in over doing it. healthiness is the balance of functions, when you start diverting your attention more equally on all functions. (and thus using them in a constructive, non-destructive way)

    for example, introverted types get lost in their own heads when unhealthy. the external world becomes hostile. for extroverts i suppose we could assume the opposite.

    thus im very certain @Mole is an introvert due being lost in his/her head, and my best theory is, he shes an isfp. ive came across similar cases before. (isfp's get all paranoid of others motivations when unhealthy.) and mole, i know there are crap people, but you need to realize, not everyone is that way. for example, if you want to know my honest motivation in this discussion: intellectual curiosity. or thats at least what i tell myself.. i guess i just want to understand everyone so i could know how to have fun time with them. and perhaps help them.
    healthiness is all about appreciating other peoples inferior function. its like the sore spot no one ever notices, but we desperately wish they did, and if you focus on doing that, youll have many friends. and also learn to appreciate your own inferior function, others wont find it stupid if you show them how cool it is.

    INTJ 4w3 Sp Sx. (i dont believe in tritype. i do believe in learning traits from others.)

    mistakes happen. expect them, and grow from them. look for them, and avoid them.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post
    if youre unhealthy, your bad influence to _everyone_. including yourself.
    huh. circular logic aside, i was actually thinking of the old INFJ doorslam threads, lock out information, filter information first (which can include the experiences of others), etc' - which while most who experienced it from the outside (myself included) saw is as very destructive behavior, many of the INFJs themselves identified it as a circumstantial need.

    i can also extend this to your ENTP "unhealthy states" - a.k.a. playing with others - this is actually very common for immature ENTPs with yet-to-develop Fe, but it's part of the process of how tert Fe develops in ENTPs to begin with - exploring and verifying the spectrum of sociological reactions is a common element of how ENTPs learn to engage it on the empathic level, that's where the oversized-seed of truth stems in relations to the negative stereotype. to the counter point, going into an NeFe without learning to engage Fe in unison with Ti, while seemingly quite considerate towards others to the extreme if gauged in Fe standards alone, is actually very unhealthy for an ENTP - it's a mental state of a never ending walk through the eggshell fields without seen any path in between.

    the same can probably be said about INTJs learning to utilize & interact with others under an Fi-emergent code of ethics - i've observed that many INTJs actually learn to respect others as entities equal to themselves worthy of Fi projection through developing the ability to gauge other's utility value.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    huh. circular logic aside, i was actually thinking of the old INFJ doorslam threads, lock out information, filter information first , etc' - which while most who experienced it from the outside (myself included) saw is as very destructive behavior, many of the INFJs themselves identified it as a circumstantial need.

    i can also extend this to your ENTP "unhealthy states" - a.k.a. playing with others - this is actually very common for immature ENTPs with yet-to-develop Fe, but it's part of the process of how tert Fe develops in ENTPs to begin with - exploring and verifying the spectrum of sociological reactions is a common element of how ENTPs learn to engage it on the empathic level, that's where the oversized-seed of truth stems in relations to the negative stereotype. to the counter point, going into an NeFe without learning to engage Fe in unison with Ti, while seemingly quite considerate towards others to the extreme if gauged in Fe standards alone, is actually very unhealthy for an ENTP - it's a mental state of a never ending walk through the eggshell fields without seen any path in between.

    the same can probably be said about INTJs learning to utilize & interact with others under an Fi-emergent code of ethics - i've observed that many INTJs actually learn to respect others as entities equal to themselves worthy of Fi projection through developing the ability to gauge other's utility value.
    i dont understand the infj doorslam thing at all. ive never done such. sure i might get less interested in actively engaging with people if the distance is too great, but thats nothing personal.

    although, my mother caused me a permanent injury which has made my life a living hell since and mentally ill, so i pretty much avoid her cause shes dangerous. people in my family tree are like that, so i avoid them all pretty much.

    i guess im sometimes afraid of speaking my honest thoughts cause they aint perfect. and then i cant get connection to others. or i might blabber endlessly about thoughts that are too theoretical.

    "(which can include the experiences of others)"

    do you mean not telling others what you think of them? in that case, its not to be told because what i think of them isnt final, its flawed, it requires me to think more of the other person to gain an acurate picture of them so i know how to interact with them. if i went telling others how i dislike them based on my flawed thoughts, it would be as useful as it is to me when an esfp tells me to shut up and not think that way. which only makes me baffled, and doesnt help me identify the problem.
    healthiness is all about appreciating other peoples inferior function. its like the sore spot no one ever notices, but we desperately wish they did, and if you focus on doing that, youll have many friends. and also learn to appreciate your own inferior function, others wont find it stupid if you show them how cool it is.

    INTJ 4w3 Sp Sx. (i dont believe in tritype. i do believe in learning traits from others.)

    mistakes happen. expect them, and grow from them. look for them, and avoid them.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post
    i dont understand the infj doorslam thing at all.
    ...i'm not sure how to expand on that & navigate the conversation from here without derailing the thread beyond any point of restoration, tbh.

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