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  1. #81
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Well, keep in mind that you are a socionics INFj, also. They go by whether the dominant function is judging or percieving. Since I am an introverted thinker, and not an introverted intuitive by any stretch, I am an INTj.
    No, I may not be INFj in that system, because it define the functions differently. Fi is markedly differently in socionics than the way Jung describes it. I can't relate to it very well at all, where as Jung's Fi is spot on.

    Socionics is derived from Jung... I've been looking at that to learn more about what the functions are. I haven't been able to find any other source that "systematizes" the functions so well. If you know of one, let me know.
    I think socionics took some Jungian concepts & went in another direction. Its definitions of the functions deviate considerably from Jung, IMO, so that I cannot say they are the same. People differ on this view though.

    The nutshell simplification of Jung's theory is that functions are less about behaviors & ordered neatly in some stack where they take on a role in the person's mind than the dominant type being the ego (the basic personality) with an antagonistic dynamic with the opposing inferior function (the least differentiated & doorway to the unconscious). Everything else is kind of undifferentiated gobbly gook besides a possible aux function which complements the ego. Differentiation refers to a function being cognition as reasonably separated from non-cognitive stuff (emotions, memories, fantasies, etc.) as thinking can be.

    MBTI stays truer to this, IMO, with the addition of the tertiary.

    You have read Jung, correct?

    If you want some other function models, Beebe has the most detailed one I know of, and Lenore Thomspon has one (which is more vague). Naomei Quenk explains the dom/inferior dynamic. They all have slightly different takes on it.

    It can take that form, but I don't really like when people pity me, because then I always get the sense that they think I would be more happier if I became like them.
    I don't have this impression of ExFPs, but I know what you mean when people take that attitude. I think it's mostly an extroverted bias... They associate their own introverting with something uncomfortable, and they project that onto us, so we must be miserable and gloomy if we're not acting like them. Meanwhile, introverts project their discomfort with extroverting onto Es and assume they're shallow attention whores or something like that.

    Do you mean ENFPs? Or was that not a typo. It seems like the ESFP might have a cause, but maybe only one or two of them... otherwise, they're more likely to have opinions about people, which makes them come off as pragmatic rather than idealistic.
    I mean ExFPs. I don't find ESFPs have strong judgements against people like Fe types do. They tend to object to things they find immoral, aka, my ESFP sister feels strongly against abortion. She doesn't really have opinions about individuals who have had an abortion though. See the difference?

    Her pragmatism is kind of compassionate, because it accepts the reality of people being imperfect & making mistakes.

    I would agree that ESFPs are the least idealistic of the FPs though, and probably the most openly opinionated. They give less benefit of the doubt because they perceive less possible interpretations. This can give them more backbone too, though.

    The IxFPs are often more "buttoned down'' than their extraverted counterparts, and it's not unusual for them to be (note the lowercase) much more conservative in their habits.
    This is a matter of introversion.... Less expenditure of energy. My life is pretty chaotic sometimes due to difficulty with structure, but not rivaling many ENFPs I know.

    If you mean conservative in attitudes, then that tends to have less to do with type than an individual's belief system. IxFPs tend to have a greater consistency with their values, being dominant rational types.

    My sister is an INFJ, and that doesn't sound like her. She probably has had, over the course of her lifetime, worse self-esteem issues than I ever did.
    Lots of arrogant INFJs have self-esteem issues. The two probably go hand-in-hand. The issue is whether they have the whole Messiah complex, which IxFPs don't tend to have.

    Come to think of it, you're right. They sort of don't like people who are "goody two-shoes" or are too self-sacrificing, either.
    This has to do with detecting fake-ness & sensing emotional manipulation.


    Ah, but under every cynic is an idealist. Somewhere inside me is an idealist, as well. I've let it out of it's cage a few times recently here. I think dopey sweet thoughts sometimes, but I usually don't reveal them to people unless I'm very familiar with them and I trust them... like "wow man, we really are all one species." It makes me want to roll my eyes to read that I even wrote that, yet I cannot help but feel that on some level, it's true.
    Certainly true, but it just emphasizes how INFPs are not all positive, gentle & sweet, fluffy bunnies.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #82
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post

    The nutshell simplification of Jung's theory is that functions are less about behaviors & ordered neatly in some stack where they take on a role in the person's mind than the dominant type being the ego (the basic personality) with an antagonistic dynamic with the opposing inferior function (the least differentiated & doorway to the unconscious). Everything else is kind of undifferentiated gobbly gook besides a possible aux function which complements the ego. Differentiation refers to a function being cognition as reasonably separated from non-cognitive stuff (emotions, memories, fantasies, etc.) as thinking can be.

    MBTI stays truer to this, IMO, with the addition of the tertiary.

    You have read Jung, correct?
    That part of it, I have. I do think his less geometric descriptions is probably closer to reality than some of these tidier function stack things.

    If you want some other function models, Beebe has the most detailed one I know of, and Lenore Thomspon has one (which is more vague). Naomei Quenk explains the dom/inferior dynamic. They all have slightly different takes on it.
    I've tried to look for Lenore Thompson's website, but I've been unable to find it. I think it might be down.

    I don't have this impression of ExFPs, but I know what you mean when people take that attitude. I think it's mostly an extroverted bias... They associate their own introverting with something uncomfortable, and they project that onto us, so we must be miserable and gloomy if we're not acting like them. Meanwhile, introverts project their discomfort with extroverting onto Es and assume they're shallow attention whores or something like that.
    I suppose they probably have a hard time understanding how I can be happy spending a whole day by myself, and be miserable attending a party stuffed with hundreds of people. If they feel the opposite, and they see that I'm unhappy, they must draw the incorrect assumption that the reason I"m unhappy is that I'm not attending enough gigantic parties or something.

    I mean ExFPs. I don't find ESFPs have strong judgements against people like Fe types do. They tend to object to things they find immoral, aka, my ESFP sister feels strongly against abortion. She doesn't really have opinions about individuals who have had an abortion though. See the difference?
    I do. I suppose that explains how Fi can be so "changeable" with regards to other people. If I determine someone is enemy, which doesn't happen often, but it does happen, it is very hard for them to get off that enemies list.



    This is a matter of introversion.... Less expenditure of energy. My life is pretty chaotic sometimes due to difficulty with structure, but not rivaling many ENFPs I know.
    That, and I think that the behaviors I'm thinking of are less conducive to Fi or Ti "frameworks." They require being very "in the moment" and do not allow for much introverted processing.


    If you mean conservative in attitudes, then that tends to have less to do with type than an individual's belief system. IxFPs tend to have a greater consistency with their values, being dominant rational types.
    Not attitudes, more like, personal habits. Say, pot-smoking, for instance. Casual sex might be another. A good way to put it might be "risky behavior." IXXPs only seem to engage in that sporadically. They don't need to, and don't want to, engage in it all the time, or maybe not even at all.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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