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  1. #71
    Stansmith
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    I wonder what it would be like for a Ne-dom to be raised by Ni-dom parents. The norm seems to be ENxP kid, SJ parents. I have no idea what the former relationship dynamic would look like.

  2. #72
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    I wonder what it would be like for a Ne-dom to be raised by Ni-dom parents. The norm seems to be ENxP kid, SJ parents. I have no idea what the former relationship dynamic would look like.
    If my father would have lived, I would have an ENFP father.

  3. #73
    Society
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    I wonder what it would be like for a Ne-dom to be raised by Ni-dom parents. The norm seems to be ENxP kid, SJ parents. I have no idea what the former relationship dynamic would look like.
    hmm? my father was an INTJ, i'm probably an ENTP... i suppose my family fits the bill (except that my mother is an ENFP, so only one Ni-dom parent)... otherwise my sister seems to be the odd one out (ISFP).

    unfortunately, the question of "how is it to be raised by..." is too lacking in specifics or any point of comparison to answer. how was it to be raised by SJ parents?

  4. #74
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Mane

    1. No from my experience, SJ's hate change. They like routine, and they like familiarity. I've found that SJ's have the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" policy.

    2. Another interesting functional rivalry has to do with Ni vs. Se. It seems like Se users want to experience everything and get their feet wet. Se doms are the types of people that live for the moment and don't want to think of the future. Also, Se users want to learn by doing, and learn from experience. Se is very action oriented and is great at taking immediate action in the present moment. Se also is very aware of their outer surroundings and is very detail oriented. On the other hand, you have the opposite function of Ni. The Ni function often sucks at learning by doing. Ni wants to study something for what seems like forever before actually doing it. I think that when Ni users study something, they can see how it would work in their heads very easily. Then, once they actually do something, it's almost like they've already done it 1000 times before because they basically had such a clear understanding of it through studying it. Ni users also have intuitive visions of the future in their heads, and are future oriented many times because of this. Many times, they have a clear idea of what's gonna happen, before it happens. The two functions are very different indeed.

  5. #75
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    What if it can be made better?
    That's always what I say. However it seems that SJ's almost always think that change will fuck things up.

  6. #76
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I should add that INFPs are equally capable of hurting other people's feelings... I don't think many INFPs are as empathetic as they like to think they are. Fi doms will bully if they think it serves some "good", or even if they have just decided that the person in question is "unacceptable".
    This is BECAUSE we empathize well. Empathy does not have to lead to compassion. It is simply a grasp of how & why someone feels a certain way. That can be used for evil. People's soft spots are sussed out.

    Moreover, if they've decided someone has "potential" to be something they find more acceptable, they will nag the person in question in spite of obvious signs of how uncomfortable it's making the other person. To me, that feels like bullying, even if the INFP doesn't see it that way. I can and do tell them, but they may not always listen. Anyway, a naturally empathetic type should be able to see the signs of discomfort... I don't exactly have a poker face.
    Nudging towards potential is NF territory. But INFPs are the least nudgey of all the NFs... hands down. This is because we're least likely to presume we know how someone else feels or what they need, but our role tends to be helping someone discover & clarify such things. Active listening is the noted strength of INFPs....

    I've noticed that FPs have a tendency to say stuff like "your bad attitude is making me uncomfortable." And, then I'm being selfish because I'm not just "being happy" (as though it were that easy for me) for the other person's sake! To me, that's not actually empathy, either, as the other person is only a secondary concern.
    That sounds so FJ to me, I can't even fathom an FP saying it.... Fi is notorious for having an impervious wall to influence from others' feelings & emotions. Your bad attitude is easily ignored by me! I'm waaaay more likely to be on the receiving end of such a statement, and likely from an FJ.

    "Their outward demeanour is harmonious and inconspicuous; they reveal a delightful repose, a sympathetic parallelism, which has no desire to affect others, either to impress, influence, or change them in any way." - Jung on Fi-dom.

    Fi is... something different. Fi is digesting cues and feeling tones, and then determining whether or not they are acceptable. (That's all I've been able to figure out about Fi so far.) If you're less able to adjust to these feeling tones and have to submit them to an internal system of quality control, you're going to place less of a concern on how other people think.
    Nope. Not Fi. First part sounds like it might be SiFe though (confuising ISFJs with INFPs? Likely).

    That Dario Nardi experiment shows NFPs blowing all the other types out of the water as far as empathic thinking goes. Empathy is not adjusting yourself to someone else's feelings. Empathy is an identification of how & why someone feels a certain way, and grasping it so deeply you can mimic it inside yourself. That can lead to a sympathetic adjustment, but the two are not always connected.

    I never think, "How would I feel in their shoes?", but "How would I feel if I were them in their shoes?". Fi types spend a lot of time exploring their inner self as a template for the human condition, so that the know what it is to feel a great variety of emotions & the nuance of meaning in these. Ne in particular sort of grasps the essence of someone, imaginatively simulates them, and connects it to the grasp of the general human condition so as to get a good likelihood of why they feel as they do. I may not ever feel angry for whatever reason someone else is, but I know what it is to be angry, and I know what that signifies, and so I can appreciate the value someone has assigned to something & the level of violation they are experiencing. Compassion comes in when I feel moved to alleviate it somehow.

    FJs have a very hard time with "foreign" feelings. They either need to relate it to themselves or someone they know who has experienced a similar thing or to the general idea of how people feel in such a situation, and then they judge your response by whether it is "normal". If it's normal, then it's deemed worthy of sympathy & compassion, which they are very good at offering. If not, then they can be dismissive or critical, or they may jump to sympathy just to appease you with no empathy behind it.

    If you are disturbing the peace with your mood, then FJs get pissy. They like consensus of feeling, where everyone adjusts to the temperature of the room, so to speak. If everyone is sad & you're chipper, then you're being inappropriate to them - genuine inner state is beside the point. FPs allow for individuals to have their own moods, even if not aligned with the group, because invalidation is the horror of horrors.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #77
    Riva
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    I assume types with the same judging functions could get along better with one another than types with the same perceiving function.

    TPs and FJs
    FPs and TJs

  8. #78
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    That sounds so FJ to me, I can't even fathom an FP saying it.... Fi is notorious for having an impervious wall to influence from others' feelings & emotions. Your bad attitude is easily ignored by me! I'm waaaay more likely to be on the receiving end of such a statement, and likely from an FJ.
    I've had two ESFPs say this to me, and no FJs.

    I think it might be more of a Fi aux thing, though. The Fi doms don't seem to really do this.

    By the way, read the description for introverted ethics or feeling and how it manifests on Fi auxiliaries. Both of them mention a need to shape feelings of others to better match their own. I can see them getting quite upset when the person refuses to go along.

    ENFP

    ESfp

    SEE has a very sharp understanding of people's attitude towards his suggestions, as well as their mood in general. The primary method of implementation for the SEE's goals is changing people's attitudes to be more in line with his own towards a certain objective.
    Attitudes and feelings need to fit the ESFP's (SEE) will. The other person is of secondary importance. Hence, why a person needs to "shape up'' because they are being a "raincloud" and a major bummer.



    This is BECAUSE we empathize well. Empathy does not have to lead to compassion. It is simply a grasp of how & why someone feels a certain way. That can be used for evil. People's soft spots are sussed out.
    So you admit that FPs are not necessarily the font of human goodness they want others to believe they are?

    I don't think Fi actually deserves all the hated I've been placing on it. It's pretty nice when the self-righteous and "authenticity" seeking is in check.

    In other words, Fi like Ti, to work properly, has to have reference tot the external world, and not get lost in itself.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  9. #79
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I've had two ESFPs say this to me, and no FJs.

    I think it might be more of a Fi aux thing, though. The Fi doms don't seem to really do this.

    By the way, read the description for introverted ethics or feeling and how it manifests on Fi auxiliaries. Both of them mention a need to shape feelings of others to better match their own. I can see them getting quite upset when the person refuses to go along.

    ENFP

    ESfp

    Attitudes and feelings need to fit the ESFP's (SEE) will. The other person is of secondary importance. Hence, why a person needs to "shape up'' because they are being a "raincloud" and a major bummer.
    Oh that's socionics, not Jungian types. I don't relate to socionics Fi very much at all & may not even be a Fi type in that system. It sounds ways too....Fe. I use MBTI & Jungian Fi.

    ESFPs are most critical of my moods, but these are often the e7s who don't want people raining on their happy parade. I think it's a sensitivity to others' moods in the sense that they take it personally - you don't like them, you're mad at them, etc. But many I know are moody themselves & mostly forgiving of it in others.

    I will agree there is a difference with Fi-dom and Fi-aux in general too. EFPs "parent" others with Fi, if you go by function models. But this usually means a kind of championing of the underdog.

    EFPs can come off as very opinionated too, IMO, but they tend to direct it at ideas/things (Pe) over individual people.

    So you admit that FPs are not necessarily the font of human goodness they want others to believe they are?
    That sounds like the INFJs to me. They seem seriously pained to admit any flaw in themselves. Although if you're using socionics, then we're talking about different things again.

    I don't know any Fi-dom who desire or promote that reputation. A lot complain that INFP profiles are too saccharine & they wonder briefly if they are INTPs because they are not that "nice" and can get cynical about the world (dashed idealism).

    I don't think Fi actually deserves all the hated I've been placing on it. It's pretty nice when the self-righteous and "authenticity" seeking is in check.

    In other words, Fi like Ti, to work properly, has to have reference tot the external world, and not get lost in itself.
    True of any introvert, yes.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #80
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Oh that's socionics, not Jungian types. I don't relate to socionics Fi very much at all & may not even be a Fi type in that system. It sounds ways too....Fe. I use MBTI & Jungian Fi.
    Well, keep in mind that you are a socionics INFj, also. They go by whether the dominant function is judging or percieving. Since I am an introverted thinker, and not an introverted intuitive by any stretch, I am an INTj.

    Socionics is derived from Jung... I've been looking at that to learn more about what the functions are. I haven't been able to find any other source that "systematizes" the functions so well. If you know of one, let me know.
    ESFPs are most critical of my moods, but these are often the e7s who don't want people raining on their happy parade. I think it's a sensitivity to others' moods in the sense that they take it personally - you don't like them, you're mad at them, etc. But many I know are moody themselves & mostly forgiving of it in others.
    I'm not sure if the people I'm thinking of are e7s or not, but it drives me nuts. Just telling me to "be happy" doesn't do anything! If it was, then why are there any unhappy in the world at all?

    I will agree there is a difference with Fi-dom and Fi-aux in general too. EFPs "parent" others with Fi, if you go by function models. But this usually means a kind of championing of the underdog.
    It can take that form, but I don't really like when people pity me, because then I always get the sense that they think I would be more happier if I became like them. But I tried being an SP/NF for 4-6 years in my early 20s, and it didn't make me that happy.

    EFPs can come off as very opinionated too, IMO, but they tend to direct it at ideas/things (Pe) over individual people.
    Do you mean ENFPs? Or was that not a typo. It seems like the ESFP might have a cause, but maybe only one or two of them... otherwise, they're more likely to have opinions about people, which makes them come off as pragmatic rather than idealistic. To be honest, though the image of an ENFP in my mind is the stereotypical hippy. Although, like stereotypes usually are, that's probably way off the mark for most of the actual ENFPs here.

    The IxFPs are often more "buttoned down'' than their extraverted counterparts, and it's not unusual for them to be (note the lowercase) much more conservative in their habits.

    That sounds like the INFJs to me. They seem seriously pained to admit any flaw in themselves.
    My sister is an INFJ, and that doesn't sound like her. She probably has had, over the course of her lifetime, worse self-esteem issues than I ever did.



    I don't know any Fi-dom who desire or promote that reputation. A lot complain that INFP profiles are too saccharine
    Come to think of it, you're right. They sort of don't like people who are "goody two-shoes" or are too self-sacrificing, either.

    & they wonder briefly if they are INTPs because they are not that "nice" and can get cynical about the world (dashed idealism).
    Ah, but under every cynic is an idealist. Somewhere inside me is an idealist, as well. I've let it out of it's cage a few times recently here. I think dopey sweet thoughts sometimes, but I usually don't reveal them to people unless I'm very familiar with them and I trust them... like "wow man, we really are all one species." It makes me want to roll my eyes to read that I even wrote that, yet I cannot help but feel that on some level, it's true.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

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