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  1. #11
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Ti and Te doms are constantly at war with each other. The relationship could be characterized as nerds vs. bullies.
    INTPs should stop bullying people. They're so mean.

  2. #12
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I'm not stereotyping Te-doms as bullies. Nor am I saying that these types can't get along and understand one another. I'm saying that a natural animosity exists between them.
    Possibly, but I think it's more of a temporary thing rather than a fundamental incompatibility.

    I think INTJs and INTPs can develop a mutual respect, but it takes time. I'm thinking of an INTJ coworker I clashed with at first; we eventually developed that mutual respect, I think. We have somewhat different strengths, but they are both very useful for things that we would probably agree are important.

    INTPs should stop bullying people. They're so mean.
    INTPs are bullies? Usually we like to leave people alone. The idea of going out of our way to make someone's life miserable seems foreign to me, at least. I don't care enough one way or the other to seek something like that out, unless I feel they've wronged me or someone I care about. But even then, it's sort of a temporary one time thing, not something I do consistently because I've found a target.

    I should add that INFPs are equally capable of hurting other people's feelings... I don't think many INFPs are as empathetic as they like to think they are. Fi doms will bully if they think it serves some "good", or even if they have just decided that the person in question is "unacceptable".

    Moreover, if they've decided someone has "potential" to be something they find more acceptable, they will nag the person in question in spite of obvious signs of how uncomfortable it's making the other person. To me, that feels like bullying, even if the INFP doesn't see it that way. I can and do tell them, but they may not always listen. Anyway, a naturally empathetic type should be able to see the signs of discomfort... I don't exactly have a poker face.

    I think Fe is better at empathy. I tend to view Fi as having a tendency towards self-righteousness and judging others to a standard that they often times won't even follow themselves. When Fi keeps the self-righteousness in check, it's fine by me. I think the empathy in question is often times rooted in some form of self-righteousness, which isn't really empathy. Or, if Fi is actually in tune with how other people are feeling, it seems to only care about this information as it relates to his or herself. I've noticed that FPs have a tendency to say stuff like "your bad attitude is making me uncomfortable." And, then I'm being selfish because I'm not just "being happy" (as though it were that easy for me) for the other person's sake! To me, that's not actually empathy, either, as the other person is only a secondary concern.

    I don't really have those problems with Fe users. They seem to be satisfied as long as I make the attempt to understand where they are coming from, and adjust my actions to satisfy their concerns. I seem to have grown my Ne enough to be able to do this. I don't know how to satisfy an unhappy Fi user, and they may even deny that something is wrong. (That doesn't change it from being my responsibility to do something about, naturally.)

    Fe is reacting to external cues and feeling tones... tuning to these things, I suppose. It's not hard for me to see how this can be connected with empathy. Fi is... something different. Fi is digesting cues and feeling tones, and then determining whether or not they are acceptable. (That's all I've been able to figure out about Fi so far.) If you're less able to adjust to these feeling tones and have to submit them to an internal system of quality control, you're going to place less of a concern on how other people think. Empathy is one of positive aspects of being concerned with how other people think. The negative side of that is being a sheeple.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  3. #13
    Stansmith
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    The unhealthy-ESFJ brand of Fe annoys me the most

  4. #14
    Stansmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Possibly.

    I think INTJs and INTPs can develop a mutual respect, but it takes time. I'm thinking of an INTJ coworker I clashed with at first here, but I think we've developed that mutual respect. We have somewhat different strengths, but they are both very useful for things that we agree are important.



    INTPs are bullies? Usually we like to leave people alone. The idea of going out of our way to make someone's life miserable seems foreign to me, at least. I don't care enough one way or the other to seek this out, unless they've wronged me or someone I care about. But even then, it's a one time thing, not something I do consistently because I've found a target.

    I should add that INFPs are equally capable of hurting other people's feelings... I don't think many INFPs are as empathetic as they like to think they are. Fi doms will bully if they think it serves some "good", or even if they have just decided that the person in question is "unacceptable".

    Moreover, if they've decided someone has "potential" to be something they find more acceptable, they will nag the person in question in spite of obvious signs of how uncomfortable it's making the other person. To me, that feels like bullying, even if the INFP doesn't see it that way. I can and do tell them, but they may not always listen. Anyway, a naturally empathetic type should be able to see the signs of discomfort... I don't exactly have a poker face.

    I think Fe is better at empathy, I tend to view Fi as having a tendency towards self-righteousness and judging others to a standard that they often times won't even follow themselves. When Fi keeps the self-righteousness in check, it's fine by me. I think the empathy in question is oftentimes self-righteousness, which isn't really empathy. Or, if Fi is so often in tune with what other people are doing, it seems to only care about this information as it relates his or herself. I've noticed that FPs have a tendency to say stuff like "your bad attitude is making me uncomfortable." And, then I'm being selfish because I'm not just "being happy" (as though it were that easy for me) for the other person's sake! To me, that's not actually empathy, as the other person is only a secondary concern.

    I don't really have those problems with Fe users. They seem to be satisfied as long as I make the attempt to understand where they are coming from, and adjust my actions to satisfy their concerns. I don't know how to satisfy an unhappy Fi user. I seem to have grown my Ne enough to be able to do this.
    So a TP with little use of Fe is more like to think "I don't care either way" than a Fi user, who's more likely to see himself as being on a moral high ground? Because I think the outward behavior of a Fi user and a Ti-crazy ENTP 7 aren't that far off from each other.

  5. #15
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    So a TP with little use of Fe is more like to think "I don't care either way" than a Fi user, who's more likely to see himself as being on a moral high ground? Because I think the outward behavior of a Fi user and a Ti-crazy ENTP 7 aren't that far off from each other.
    I don't know about the ENTPs, but with the INTPs, I think so. Although... my understanding from reading Jung that it's pointless for an INTP to try and gain control of his unconscious feeling, because it will just leave them conflicted and indecisive. He seems to suggest that it's better to use Ne than "develop Fe." Judging by my attempts to be an NF in my early 20s (If you go to a major hippy college you'll do that), I'd say I agree.


    I can't speak for the ENTP... but you may be mistyping an ENFP just because they aren't talking about rainbows or something. Jim Morrison and John Lennon were both ENFP males.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  6. #16
    Stansmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I don't know about the ENTPs, but with the INTPs, I think so. Although... my understanding from reading Jung that it's pointless for an INTP to try and gain control of his unconscious feeling, because it will just leave them conflicted and indecisive. He seems to suggest that it's better to use Ne than "develop Fe." Judging by my attempts to be an NF in my early 20s (If you go to a major hippy college you'll do that), I'd say I agree.


    I can't speak for the ENTP... but you may be mistyping an ENFP just because they aren't talking about rainbows or something. Jim Morrison and John Lennon were both ENFP males.
    I was talking about guys like Quentin Tarantino, Seth Macfarlane or your stereotypical ENTP troll who come off as very anti-Fe.

  7. #17
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure I use Fe, but EXFJ's can be pretty darn annoying to me. Not for all the reasons I listed- mainly because they understand social things better than I do and so I'm easy to fool- and they tend to attach meaning to things which isn't there and make a big deal over nothing. And then there's the ultra-conformist who makes value decisions based on nothing more than tradition, and then proceeds to force them onto other people. Maybe this indicates I'm Fi, I don't know. It just seems like a lack of thinking about things.

  8. #18
    WALMART
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    Se and Ni

    Te and Fi

  9. #19
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Ti and Te.
    Fi and Fe.
    Si and Se.
    Ni and Ne.

    These function pairs just don't get along when acting as dominants in two different people respectively.
    This analysis is too simplistic. Functions do not operate in a vacuum. How well people with these pairs of dom functions get along will have much to do with their other functions, and how they work with or temper the influence of the dom functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I haven't had any problems with Ne types unless they don't listen to me; Ni types can just be really confusing, often on purpose. At least INTJ's can. They like to turn people's thinking upside down.
    You have no idea how satisfying this can be.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #20
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    I was talking about guys like Quentin Tarantino, Seth Macfarlane or your stereotypical ENTP troll who come off as very anti-Fe.
    None of those people strike me as doing any of the things I described. I also did not say bullying was contrary to INTP behavior, merely that it was contrary to INTP inclinations. We don't want to get involved with things enough to be bullies. Perhaps ENTps are different.

    And, both Tarantino and Farlane strike me more as Se doms than Ne doms. Perhaps Farlane might be a Ne dom, but I doubt Tarantino. The kind of movies he gets the most excited about is stuff like low-budget kung fu movies, stuff that seems to be more appealing to Se interests than Ne interests.
    Last edited by Julius_Van_Der_Beak; 07-18-2013 at 06:53 AM.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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