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  1. #1
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Default What Functions are responsible for...any help appreciated

    ***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED TO MAKE IT MORE DIGESTABLE.


    Please don't feel I'm asking you to answer all of the following questions/ponderings at one time or in one sitting or that I'm asking one person to feel obligated to respond to all of them. Let's just say that if you have insight on any of the questions whatsoever, pick the one that you feel you have knowledge of and share with me. Thank you for any amount of time and effort that you do contribute.


    ******************************************

    I'm currently working on a science fiction trilogy and in so doing have begun to wonder how different cognitive functions are manifested during such an endeavor, which ones are responsible for success in different phases of the project.

    What functions would be responsible for inventing and developing a language? [a language is a system with complex rules and many subtle nuances.]


    Would these be the same functions responsible for building a number system, since they both are systems and many people view numbers as a language?

    How about world-building, including an understanding of all the geographical features of a planet and how they interact and the impact and role they played upon the cultures arising on said planet? [would this also be a systems building]

    Okay, and also, how about the cultures themselves? What functions would be responsible for building a planet with various cultures and religions and in the case of the religions and philosophies, keeping them cohesive and believable throughout the course of a novel?

    Once the novel is written, the author must either become an entrepreneur and self-publish or become a literary salesperson and convince an existing company to buy the book. What cognitive functions come into play here?

    Once the book is accepted by a publishing company then the author is often required to do his/her own marketing and must go out into the highways and hedges and sell the thing to the public [unless you land a deal with Random House or something]. This often entails getting up in front of crowds and speaking at events. It involves kissing babies and shaking hands, smiling and being polite. Sometimes, it involves climbing behind an guitar and belting out a tune or who knows what. It involves poetry nights and open mics, festivals and banquets, talking to professors and attending writer's workshops and on and on. Some writers come across as warm and approachable, energetic and human. Some come across as stiff and uncomfortable, distant and detached. What functions do you think is required to put an audience at ease and hold their interests? to sell books?

    What do you value in a speaker? and what functions are responsible for those qualities that you value?
    Last edited by Ene; 07-11-2013 at 10:13 AM.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  2. #2
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    i think you are trying to fit too much into cognitive functions, they dont cover all your brain processes you know
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #3
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    cognitive, according to Merriam Websters, is:


    cog·ni·tive
    adjective \ˈkäg-nə-tiv/


    Definition of COGNITIVE

    1

    : of, relating to, being, or involving conscious intellectual activity (as thinking, reasoning, or remembering) <cognitive impairment>


    2

    : based on or capable of being reduced to empirical factual knowledge

    — cog·ni·tive·ly adverb





    Other Psychology Terms

    fetish, hypochondria, intelligence, mania, narcissism, neurosis, pathological, psychosis, schadenfreude, subliminal


    cog·ni·tive
    adjective \ˈkäg-nət-iv\ (Medical Dictionary)

    Medical Definition of COGNITIVE


    : of, relating to, or being conscious intellectual activity (as thinking, reasoning, remembering, imagining, or learning words) <the cognitive elements of perception—C. H. Hamburg>

    —cog·ni·tive·ly adverb


    According to the medical dictionary Cognitive Function means:




    cognitive function,

    an intellectual process by which one becomes aware of, perceives, or comprehends ideas. It involves all aspects of perception, thinking, reasoning, and remembering
    Neurology--Any mental process that involves symbolic operations–eg, perception, memory, creation of imagery, and thinking; CFs encompasses awareness and capacity for judgment.

    If cognitive functions truly do involve all aspects of perception, thinking, reasoning and remembering, then why do they not cover the brain processes I mentioned? I mean theoretically, why couldn't they?
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  4. #4
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    If cognitive functions truly do involve all aspects of perception, thinking, reasoning and remembering, then why do they not cover the brain processes I mentioned? I mean theoretically, why couldn't they?
    who told you that the functions used in MBTI are the only functions that the whole human cognition is capable of?

    anyways:

    "For complete orientation all four functions should contribute equally: thinking should facilitate cognition and judgment, feeling should tell us how and to what extent a thing is important or unimportant for us, sensation should convey concrete reality to us through seeing, hearing, tasting, etc., and intuition should enable us to divine the hidden possibilities in the background, since these too belong to the complete picture of a given situation." -Jung
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    It's okay, @INTP. If you think the questions are asking too much. I realize that they are asking a lot and I don't expect that any one person should take the time to answer them all in one sitting. I should have said that earlier. I'm going back to edit so that those skimming the thread will not be given that impression also.

    ...but they are here just in case someone comes along who feels that they can be answer some of them.

    Still, thank you for at reading them and giving your opinion. It is duly noted.

    ***As for an answer to who told me. Nobody. It's just that the term cognitive refers to the brain and to thinking, and since all the cognitive functions are related to thinking processes, it seem reasonable that they would all play some role in the way those processes were carried out. The quote you display does not dispute this in my eyes, but rather supports it, but it's okay. I get what you're saying and I respect it. I just don't agree with it, that's all.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  6. #6
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    Se - Objective sensory data
    Si - Subjective sensory data
    Ne - Objectively intuition data (things that are objectively not apparent)
    Ni - Subjectively intuition data (interpreted symbolism and gut feelings)
    Fe - Objective ethics
    Fi - Subjective ethics
    Te - Objective logic
    Ti - Objective logic

    to explain intuition a little more clearly,

    Ne users objectively see all the empty space in a situation, Ni users subjectively see the empty space.

    If we were at the circus and you asked an Ne dom to explain to you what the circus was missing, they would tell you something completely random and mixed up that was objectively not there (IE: a pink unicorn with a jetpack) which is why they are so goofy and eccentric at times. An Ni user would give you a more subjective interpretation like, "I get this feeling this circus is really low budget and I can't quite explain why."

  7. #7
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    @DJ Arendee

    Thanks for responding.

    So, if I'm reading you right, in order to create these various systems, a person would possibly utilize all the cognitive functions to some degree or another at varying points in the process in the creation of a world with languages, geographical features, various societies, religions, etc.?
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  8. #8
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Ene

    What functions would be responsible for inventing and developing a language? [a language is a system with complex rules and many subtle nuances.]
    This is probably Ti. After all, Ti can find the perfect words to describe anything and in addition is a systems-building function.

    Would these be the same functions responsible for building a number system, since they both are systems and many people view numbers as a language?
    Ti could probably do this, but Te could definitely do it as well. After all, Newton (INTJ) developed calculus.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    @Ene



    This is probably Ti. After all, Ti can find the perfect words to describe anything and in addition is a systems-building function.



    Ti could probably do this, but Te could definitely do it as well. After all, Newton (INTJ) developed calculus.
    Great One,

    Thanks a bunch. Your answers are very helpful. Yeah, I can see where Ti might be the primary "tool" needed in developing and building a language system and yes, Te might be more suited to number systems. Perhaps that is because number systems can be used for precise calculations whereas language systems are more open-ended and ongoing. I think that maybe language is more divergent.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  10. #10
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    if you look at this eeg map that nardi is using in his research:



    nardi associated Ti with fp1, f3 and f4(and everyone can use these areas separately, its just that Ti seems to like to link those areas). language processing comes mainly from f3, t3, t4, f4 and areas processing language also are kinda half on f7 and f8. speech also uses working memory and other types of cognition that are in deeper parts of our brains and arent visible in this map and which arent associated with any of the cognitive functions in nardis(or other peoples) research. i should also mention that language is divided roughly into separate brain hemispheres in a way that left is more literal and has more to do with exact words and such and right side is more interested on tone, for example the big picture of the sentence and stuff like that(im in a hurry so cant give more detailed explanation).

    i hope you can see where you are going wrong with your questions from this example, the same mistake occurs on other questions aswell, im just using this as an example.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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