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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    This is very helpful. So, really, Se would actually be a helpful way of perceiving if, say you were going to recall and write about the physical environment? I mean like if I were writing a scene where a person was descending into a volcanic crater and his struggle was against the elements or rather the physical conditions surrounding him, then an awareness of factors [such as heat intensity and its effect upon the human body, etc. ] that go into making up that experience would be needed to make the scene come alive. And then, when I brought it down to a personal level and say had someone traveling across a desert, a physical orientation of one's place in that desert and the impact of the elements on the person's body and mind would be more subjective and then that would require an Si perceiving function. That leads me to the conclusion that at some point and time, it becomes necessary for any writer of action to draw upon Se, at least to some degree, so that the scene seems truly oriented in time and space and upon Si so that the impact upon the characters seems realistic and tangible.

    Now I am also thinking that Ne would be the function that allows a person to come up with the notion of another world in the first place. I can't help but wonder if Stan Lee, creator of the Marvel universe, George Lucas and others who have successfully built fictional worlds and solar systems rely heavily upon Ne perception while the development of the various philosophies, ideologies and religions of these said worlds rely more heavily upon Ni. The wheels in my head have been turning about writing and functions for some time now and this discussion is helping me work through a notion that nags at me, a notion that we all employ functions other than our preferred ones when we realize our preferred ones will not accomplish the task or when we suddenly find ourselves outside our comfort zones.

    And in speaking of comfort zones, @The Great One, thank you for that explanation on the functions that go into selling. Yes, I can see, after reading your analysis, why ESTPs are the king of selling. My brother and sister are both ESTP and so is a dear long time friend and all three of them could sell legs to a centipede and make the centipede feel like he'd gotten a bargain.

    Your analysis actually helps me to understand why I have to work so hard at that and why it actually feels like work to me. The thing I do have going for me is the charm and this raw honesty, or natural authenticity [it doesn't come through so much on here, I suppose, but it does when I'm on stage], that makes people feel so "connected" to me, yet, the truth is that I am just sharing from a basic understanding of what it means to be human and somewhat humane.

    I had rather write a hundred novels than get out and sell one. I have to psyche myself up when I know I've got to get out there and sell. It's exhausting and it doesn't come natural to me, but hey, if I want people to know about my books, I have to get out there and promote myself. The sales is the hardest part. I'm not saying that I can't do it or that I don't do it, but that at the end of the day I have to come to a place and do an internal check to make sure that I haven't "lost" anything of internal or eternal value while I'm out there. It's hard when people start pulling on me and wanting me to do things and go places and it's difficult to know which doors to walk through and which ones are going to lead me into a snake pit filled with money hungry vipers. Even the tiny doses that I experience makes me realize that it is no wonder so many celebrities get so screwed up. If they have no time for reflection and no time to re-center themselves, then surely they are bound to get lost in the shuffle. I think above all, that I never want to loose sight of myself or forget who I really am. What's the saying? "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and loose his own soul?" I think of soul as self-identity.

    If it wasn't for the fact that I believe strongly in my work and in its ability to touch people on some level and bring them more in touch with who they are, then I don't think I could or would want to do it [I mean the selling part. The writing part is like the greatest thing ever.] Eek, I'm prattling. I do that sometimes.

    @superunknown

    Yeah, I suppose so, BUT I also can't help but wonder if maybe the kind of world crafting we do depends on the functions we prefer. I mean I still believe all functions go into it but ultimately a book reflects a certain amount of the author and what the author values and that may well be a reflection of the author's moral values, personality and cognitive functions.
    Se woudln't even have to do with the effect of things on the body. That's just more Si. Se would feel the objective sensations.The heat. The sticky sweat. The seering burns that brush across your arms and chest as you stoop over a small vein of glowing orange magma.

  2. #22
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Se woudln't even have to do with the effect of things on the body. That's just more Si. Se would feel the objective sensations.The heat. The sticky sweat. The seering burns that brush across your arms and chest as you stoop over a small vein of glowing orange magma.
    This is some socionics bullcrap and not even close to jungian/MBTI view. Personally i think its a bad idea to mix the two, socionics has so different fundamentals to jungian view of typology(even tho they appear similar on the surface) that if you are trying to build a big picture using the two system together, you are just going to end up with fucked up view of typology(as the only way to integrate the two is to have misunderstanding of both or at least another one of them).

    Sensation in general is "identical with perception"(-Jung). Se doesent mean that you perceive with eyes and Si doesent mean that you perceive bodily sensations, both are just Sensing. As mentioned there is objective and subjective side of sensation. Subjective side of sensation is about what the sensation evokes in the person, and the objective side is just perceiving 'what is' in the external world. Everyone has these both subjective and objective sides of sensation, but the difference between introverted and extraverted sensation is that, people who use Si have their consciousness habitually and automatically oriented by the intensity of the subjective factor, not the objective. Se is obviously oriented by the intensity of the objective factor. So even tho everyone has both objective and subjective factors of sensation, no one is both Se and Si user, because you cant habitually orient your consciousness according to two opposing forces.

    Other functions work in similar manner in terms of subjective/objective sides and introversion/extraversion.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #23
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    @DJ Arendee

    Se woudln't even have to do with the effect of things on the body. That's just more Si. Se would feel the objective sensations.The heat. The sticky sweat. The seering burns that brush across your arms and chest as you stoop over a small vein of glowing orange magma.
    Thanks.

    @INTP I want you to know that I truly do appreciate the time and input you've given to this thread.

    Se doesnt mean that you perceive with eyes and Si doesent mean that you perceive bodily sensations
    ,

    I took that to mean the same thing as what you say here.
    As mentioned there is objective and subjective side of sensation. Subjective side of sensation is about what the sensation evokes in the person, and the objective side is just perceiving 'what is' in the external world.
    So even tho everyone has both objective and subjective factors of sensation, no one is both Se and Si user, because you cant habitually orient your consciousness according to two opposing forces. Other functions work in similar manner in terms of subjective/objective sides and introversion/extraversion.
    Got it. Thanks for the explanation
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  4. #24
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    For politics, I would say that once again the best functions are Ti and Fe because how you come off to people and how you word things are extremely important when it comes to politics. Also the best enneagram variants for politics are so/sp because it's good at dealing with large groups. Sx/so is often the most charismatic type that inspires the largest groups of people. However, the sx variant acts like a magnet and will stir up strong emotions in people to either get them to love you or hate you. This can be good for attracting a large cult-like following but can be bad as well because sx doms that are this influential often wind up with lots of enemies as well. So/sp on the other hand is the best at playing the political game, and doesn't really inspire strong emotions in people either way. After all, it's good to inspire strong emotions in people, but this can often hinder you more than it can help you.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    For politics, I would say that once again the best functions are Ti and Fe because how you come off to people and how you word things are extremely important when it comes to politics. Also the best enneagram variants for politics are so/sp because it's good at dealing with large groups. Sx/so is often the most charismatic type that inspires the largest groups of people. However, the sx variant acts like a magnet and will stir up strong emotions in people to either get them to love you or hate you. This can be good for attracting a large cult-like following but can be bad as well because sx doms that are this influential often wind up with lots of enemies as well. So/sp on the other hand is the best at playing the political game, and doesn't really inspire strong emotions in people either way. After all, it's good to inspire strong emotions in people, but this can often hinder you more than it can help you.
    I apologize that I am not yet well acquainted with sx/so&sp. Those references are still a foreign language to me. I intend to learn, mind you. I just haven't taken the time to do so yet. I'm still stuck in the stage of using Fe/Fi/Se/Si, etc. frames of reference and I am slightly familiar with enneagram numbers, although I'm not sure I put much stock in it yet.

    Still, you're right about some people having that charisma that draws others to them and that it is both a blessing and a curse!
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  6. #26
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I apologize that I am not yet well acquainted with sx/so&sp. Those references are still a foreign language to me. I intend to learn, mind you. I just haven't taken the time to do so yet. I'm still stuck in the stage of using Fe/Fi/Se/Si, etc. frames of reference and I am slightly familiar with enneagram numbers, although I'm not sure I put much stock in it yet.

    Still, you're right about some people having that charisma that draws others to them and that it is both a blessing and a curse!
    You will see what I mean when you start studying the enneagram.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    You will see what I mean when you start studying the enneagram.
    Thanks. I believe I likely will
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  8. #28
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Ne users objectively see all the empty space in a situation, Ni users subjectively see the empty space.

    If we were at the circus and you asked an Ne dom to explain to you what the circus was missing, they would tell you something completely random and mixed up that was objectively not there (IE: a pink unicorn with a jetpack) which is why they are so goofy and eccentric at times. An Ni user would give you a more subjective interpretation like, "I get this feeling this circus is really low budget and I can't quite explain why."
    No. Please never become a professional.

  9. #29
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Thanks. I believe I likely will
    Oh you will. Trust me.

  10. #30
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    I've wondered about this, before…

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