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  1. #11
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I'm not really sure if I agree with the Ti part. I think that Ti users who have not yet developed Fe can be very impersonal, however once you develop strong Fe you tend to be much more emotionally attached to the conversation. Personally, I believe that the reason that I suck at listening is that when a person starts talking about something, my mind instantly trails off and starts analyzing the hell out of situation and this distracts me from the conversation altogether.
    That's pretty much what Nardi found (esp for the INTPs). They take in some information and (especially if it might contain a logical or classification flaw) immediately detach externally so they can analyze internally. The INTPs usually listened for a few seconds before switching into analysis mode... which means they stopped taking things in at that point.

    Fi doms tend to enter a full brain listening mode (and INFPs in particular, can sustain this mode for a long period of time, while ISFPs tend to listen deeply for a bit, and then move into action).

    As far as brain regions, Fi-doms show high activity in T3 (precise speaker) and T4 (Intuitive Listener), F8 (Grounded Believer). INFPs show more activity in F7 (Imaginative Mimic) while ISFPs show more activity in T6 (Purposeful Futurists).

    Subjectively, it feels to me like when I listen, I'm not just paying attention to surface content, I'm trying to build up a whole model of the other person's perspective, what's important to them, and what's behind their words. It sometimes feels like it's a kind of "mental simulator," that's trying to run a crude simulation of the other person's perspective and emotional state.

    This also makes sense when one considers that each person's Fi values system is different. Unlike the other judging functions, there's no way to directly translate and evaluate objectively (via logic or shared social constructs). Hence, the only thing to do is to try to enter into the other person's perspective, and try to figure out how what they are saying makes sense to them. I found it puzzling as a kid since others wouldn't do the same for me... so it felt very much like a one-way street that way.

    Nardi did observe that one's an Fi dom makes up their mind, they may no longer be willing to listen, so isn't like Fi-doms are the understanding saints all the time. One example he was an INFP having a discussion with an ESTJ on gun control. The INFP stated in a full brain, deeply listening state for a full ten minutes (Nardi was astounded). Then, the INFP made up her mind and that was that.

    And, while it is possible to use alternate brain regions to do things (and, of course, a subset of people have different brain region arrangements, particularly some left-handers), generally the process is less efficient. Nardi had people do math problems. Although some people used other parts of the brain to do math (verbal centers, for example), they were much slower and less accurate than the people who used the typical brain region for the task.

    And again... I like Nardi a lot, but I do take his findings with a few grains of salt. They haven't been peer reviewed or replicated, but he comes across as someone who believes he is honestly researching and reporting what he finds.

  2. #12
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I'm not really sure if I agree with the Ti part. I think that Ti users who have not yet developed Fe can be very impersonal, however once you develop strong Fe you tend to be much more emotionally attached to the conversation.
    No, I didn't mean that they seem cold and aloof or anything. I just feel like a lot of the time there's a slight disconnect. It's not necessarily a bad thing either - to me it's more of a quirk.

    Personally, I believe that the reason that I suck at listening is that when a person starts talking about something, my mind instantly trails off and starts analyzing the hell out of situation and this distracts me from the conversation altogether.
    But this is what I mean; there's a distance. And I can understand that, because that's just how Ti works. Ti requires constant analysis because it has to keep up with the subjective logic - it needs to OK every step in the that person's thought process in order for it to be meaningful (ie. accurate) information to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Subjectively, it feels to me like when I listen, I'm not just paying attention to surface content, I'm trying to build up a whole model of the other person's perspective, what's important to them, and what's behind their words. It sometimes feels like it's a kind of "mental simulator," that's trying to run a crude simulation of the other person's perspective and emotional state.

    This also makes sense when one consider that each person's Fi values system is different. Unlike the other functions, there's no way to directly translate and evaluate objectively (via logic or shared social constructs). Hence, the only thing to do is to try to enter into the other person's perspective, and try to figure out how what they are saying makes sense to them. I found it puzzling as a kid since others wouldn't do the same for me... so it felt very much like a one-way street that way.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  3. #13
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Southern Kross

    It's true I do constantly have to detach and analyze. The problem is that my thinking is so automatic though. For instance, many times when someone tells me to think about something, then yes, I can do it, and I do, do it. However, my best thinking is done when I'm alone and it's very automatic. My mind will automatically and completely think through every crevice and every detail of a situation, object, problem, thing, etc, and suddenly I will come to sudden realizations that I would have never thought possible, and the solution to the problem hits me like a ton of bricks. I'm not sure if this is Ni or Ti.

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