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  1. #11
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    This is a great thread @zago you have inspired me to maybe do the same but with my opposite functions of Ne+Ti.

    What would you say is a checklist for those?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #12
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    This is a great thread @zago you have inspired me to maybe do the same but with my opposite functions of Ne+Ti.

    What would you say is a checklist for those?
    Honestly it is a bit hard for me to say. I think this is because it has to come from the perspective of someone who knows what they are lacking. Ti and Ne were never something I had to worry about much because I take care of them naturally without having to feel like I am forcing myself to. I could actually be blind to the ways that an ESFJ neglects Ne and Ti. I could give it a shot, though.

    The idea, though, is to establish a few "minimums" that are fairly obvious. It is entirely possible that you already do these things, though. Any regular person who isn't depressed pretty much takes care of what they need to take care of, but there is always room for at least some improvement.

    Something else to take note of, though, is that when a person is depressed, even their dominant functions start to function like inferior ones. An INTP can lose control of Ti-Ne and start coming up with and living by insanities.

    For Ne, I might say things like
    • Maintain a creative hobby, like playing an instrument
    • Be open minded to new things others are trying to introduce you to, try to immerse yourself in them instead of rejecting them immediately.
    • Discover new music, TV shows, and movies on your own, even if they are weird.
    • Do or read something off-the-wall



    For Ti...
    • Notice when you are engaging in "magical thinking." Try to avoid assigning supernatural significance to coincidences and other mundane events in your life as a way to rationalize inaction or self-indulgence.
    • Read up on some different philosophies - break free of your religion and try to gain a truer understanding of the big picture.
    • Remember that when you meet people with different beliefs, you should try to be open minded and understanding rather than judgmental and combative.



    Honestly I think I am on the right track but this is surprisingly hard. Again, these are things I have always done automatically and to make the list, I have to envision SFJ types I've known and what some of the things they could have done to improve would have been. Generally if they have inferior Ne they are close-minded, somewhat prude, and at times lacking in imagination and creativity. If they have inferior Ti, they can get overly dogmatic with their religion and even begin to excessively add to it their own little interpretations that tend to work for them and against people they disagree with.

    Or both. In my experience, the tertiary requires a little simple effort to maintain but can easily be neglected, and the inferior requires more effort and actually seems fearsome, like something the person doesn't know if they are capable of achieving. I figure, though, that if the first 3 are in good working order, that makes the 4th easier to contend with and at least set some simple minimums for. That's the point of my checklist, anyway.

  3. #13
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Honestly it is a bit hard for me to say. I think this is because it has to come from the perspective of someone who knows what they are lacking. Ti and Ne were never something I had to worry about much because I take care of them naturally without having to feel like I am forcing myself to. I could actually be blind to the ways that an ESFJ neglects Ne and Ti. I could give it a shot, though.

    The idea, though, is to establish a few "minimums" that are fairly obvious. It is entirely possible that you already do these things, though. Any regular person who isn't depressed pretty much takes care of what they need to take care of, but there is always room for at least some improvement.

    Something else to take note of, though, is that when a person is depressed, even their dominant functions start to function like inferior ones. An INTP can lose control of Ti-Ne and start coming up with and living by insanities.

    For Ne, I might say things like
    • Maintain a creative hobby, like playing an instrument
    • Be open minded to new things others are trying to introduce you to, try to immerse yourself in them instead of rejecting them immediately.
    • Discover new music, TV shows, and movies on your own, even if they are weird.
    • Do or read something off-the-wall



    For Ti...
    • Notice when you are engaging in "magical thinking." Try to avoid assigning supernatural significance to coincidences and other mundane events in your life as a way to rationalize inaction or self-indulgence.
    • Read up on some different philosophies - break free of your religion and try to gain a truer understanding of the big picture.



    Honestly I think I am on the right track but this is surprisingly hard. Again, these are things I have always done automatically and to make the list, I have to envision SFJ types I've known and what some of the things they could have done to improve would have been. Generally if they have inferior Ne they are close-minded, somewhat prude, and at times lacking in imagination and creativity. If they have inferior Ti, they can get overly dogmatic with their religion and even begin to excessively add to it their own little interpretations that tend to work for them and against people they disagree with.

    Or both. In my experience, the tertiary requires a little simple effort to maintain but can easily be neglected, and the inferior requires more effort and actually seems fearsome, like something the person doesn't know if they are capable of achieving. I figure, though, that if the first 3 are in good working order, that makes the 4th easier to contend with and at least set some simple minimums for. That's the point of my checklist, anyway.
    Thanks I'll give it some thought. I am particularly guarded against 'magical thinking' as you pointed out.

    As for trying new things, I might be getting there, a few years back I would never have taken the chances I have lately, I've always had an interest in what could loosely be called strange or weird though. Nothing supernatural like fatuous ghost docu-bleh's but unusual films and obscure fiction I do love. However I am trying to translate this more into a way of thinking.

    I recently started watching animations done by Don Hertzfeldt and I enjoy the humour and irony in his works:



    This is one of the more humourous:



    I may be somewhat atypical for an SJ though, however this is not a source of pride or uniqueness, it's just something that is.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #14
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Thanks I'll give it some thought. I am particularly guarded against 'magical thinking' as you pointed out.

    As for trying new things, I might be getting there, a few years back I would never have taken the chances I have lately, I've always had an interest in what could loosely be called strange or weird though. Nothing supernatural like fatuous ghost docu-bleh's but unusual films and obscure fiction I do love. However I am trying to translate this more into a way of thinking.

    I recently started watching animations done by Don Hertzfeldt and I enjoy the humour and irony in his works:

    I may be somewhat atypical for an SJ though, however this is not a source of pride or uniqueness, it's just something that is.
    Tertiary functions provide some good stuff that even dominant or auxiliary users miss. It's got it's own unique flavor, when being used well.

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