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  1. #1
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    Default Fi users and not apologizing

    So, after learning some socionics, I've learned that Fi often ASSUMES the internal state of other people, while Fe needs to hear it in an objective fashion.

    Simultaneously, I notice that Fe users tend to appologize much more readily than Fi users.

    I recently was hitting on an ESFP. I told her she was attractive at one point. She then flipped and went princess on me. She was eating a salad out of a styrofoam bowl, and when she was done, held the bowl up to my face and said, "can you throw this away for me?"

    I looked at her feeling pain from what she said, and responded, "because I'm such a nice fucking guy." I took her tray and threw it out for her and didn't speak to her for a month.

    She started to realize that I had no intention of speaking to her ever again. I door slammed her. She started getting upset and anytime I was near she'd look at me a lot and make faces of concern. I don't know what emotion it was specifically. Some sort of remorse, guilt, something.

    She's never appologized. I haven't bothered asking her to either. Last time I asked an esfp to appologize to me was a disaster.

    So now she's super nice to me. So, in general Fi user fashion, I'm assuming this is her way of apologizing. I've had an INTJ appologize to me once when he started cleaning my room and asking me how my day was etc. I had an ENTJ appologize to me by looking at the floor and stating things awkwardly. So I assume its something similar with ESFP.

    So now I'm wondering, is she actually sorry? Do Fi users need to appologize? Or should I just assume it?

    From my perspective, the lack of an apology seems like a blatant form of selfishness, as if being right is more important than whatever else is on her mind. What do you think? What is going on in her mind? Why do Fi users do this? Is there something about their ego that prevents them from apologizing?

  2. #2
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    So, after learning some socionics, I've learned that Fi often ASSUMES the internal state of other people, while Fe needs to hear it in an objective fashion.

    Simultaneously, I notice that Fe users tend to appologize much more readily than Fi users.

    I recently was hitting on an ESFP. I told her she was attractive at one point. She then flipped and went princess on me. She was eating a salad out of a styrofoam bowl, and when she was done, held the bowl up to my face and said, "can you throw this away for me?"

    I looked at her feeling pain from what she said, and responded, "because I'm such a nice fucking guy." I took her tray and threw it out for her and didn't speak to her for a month.

    She started to realize that I had no intention of speaking to her ever again. I door slammed her. She started getting upset and anytime I was near she'd look at me a lot and make faces of concern. I don't know what emotion it was specifically. Some sort of remorse, guilt, something.

    She's never appologized. I haven't bothered asking her to either. Last time I asked an esfp to appologize to me was a disaster.

    So now she's super nice to me. So, in general Fi user fashion, I'm assuming this is her way of apologizing. I've had an INTJ appologize to me once when he started cleaning my room and asking me how my day was etc. I had an ENTJ appologize to me by looking at the floor and stating things awkwardly. So I assume its something similar with ESFP.

    So now I'm wondering, is she actually sorry? Do Fi users need to appologize? Or should I just assume it?

    From my perspective, the lack of an apology seems like a blatant form of selfishness, as if being right is more important than whatever else is on her mind. What do you think? What is going on in her mind? Why do Fi users do this? Is there something about their ego that prevents them from apologizing?

    This might be a behavior pattern she's not even really aware of, in terms of why she resorts to it, or how it might be offensive to others.
    To assume she's aware that there's something offensive about that request isn't entirely fair (though I'll agree, it'd irk me, depending on delivery).

    Not speaking to her for a month doesn't really seem like it'd solve anything. Neither does asking for an apology outright. I mean, if someone lacks the insight to recognize they've done something to bother you- regardless of whether one might choose to believe they "should know better," perhaps- the reality is, she may have no idea. The request for an apology would probably blindside her, & make her feel attacked, & as a result less receptive to any further feedback on your part.

    Sure, no matter how you spin it, ESFP's can be rather reactive- in the moment. However, they do get over it quickly- & will [albeit begrudgingly at times] admit when they're wrong, & apologize. This process is facilitated though, by giving them direct feedback of what YOU feel about a behavior, & that you care enough to tell them how this makes you feel, plainly. Perhaps it's speaking Fi-to-Fi. I'm not sure. I just know it can be effective in terms of truly communicating with xSFP's (& some other Fi users), & not setting off their defenses as much. "When someone does _____, I feel _______, because __________." Little things that remain unsaid can go a long way. When you respond by expressing feelings (your remark/not speaking to her), vs discussing them, it can lead to just a series of the two of you emotionally reacting to one another without addressing what's transpired.


    She could be making faces out of hurt/confusion. Trying to read you. She may understand she's done something to make you step back, but she's unsure what/doesn't want to or doesn't think to ask. Sure, being nice is her way of trying to make amends, maybe- but it's hard to actually get an apology when she may not know what to apologize for. Personally, I don't see the point in making people guess. Sometimes things appear terribly obvious in a certain context to one party, but the other party needs it clearly spelled out for them to really grasp what you're feeling. Giving a snarky reply to her request that bothered you may not have adequately illustrated to her what specifically set you off & why. Being upfront isn't always comfortable, or clean, but at least everyone ultimately knows where things stand.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  3. #3
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Sorry about that.

    Sincerely
    Fi User
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

    Quinlan's Creations

  4. #4
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    lol... @Quinlan

    yeah @Lexicon... you could be right. I should probably talk to her about it. I assumed she knew that it urked me because immediately after it happened she said, "Its ok... I'll let you sleep with my... sister" or something ridiculous. I don't know wtf happened. My experience with Fi has been that its always very suggestive but never direct.

    At one point I told her it pissed me off when she takes my ipod out of the stereo and puts hers in without really consulting me. She responded with, "Yeah... sorry, but not really." So I took her ipod and threw it across the room (and cracked the screen) and she got the message.

  5. #5
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    yeah @Lexicon... you could be right. I should probably talk to her about it. I assumed she knew that it urked me because immediately after it happened she said, "Its ok... I'll let you sleep with my... sister" or something ridiculous. I don't know wtf happened. My experience with Fi has been that its always very suggestive but never direct.
    Yeah, it seems Fi works that way, through a lot of internalizing, in a manner of speaking. I'd say it's more reactive/expressive, which can be taken as suggestive, but not particularly direct. Fe can do this in its own way, too. Either feeling function equally runs the risk of misinterpreting what is going on with the other person, imo. I don't know what function breaking it down in plain english relates to, but it's been effective for me, with Fi people (& with Si/Fe people, too). It seems redundant at times, but it helps, providing the atmosphere is calm when you approach the topic.

    So I took her ipod and threw it across the room and she got the message.
    ESTPs. Bahah.

    (sorry)
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  6. #6
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    inb4 "Fe and expecting apologies"
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    inb4 "Fe and expecting apologies"
    haha. ok so what would be a situation in which an Fi user apologizes? What reason would an Fi dom not apologize?

  8. #8
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    Am I wrong to attribute this to Fi/Fe difference? or am I just dealing with people who don't care about what I think?

  9. #9
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    What reason would an Fi dom not apologize?
    Aside from being unaware of what to apologize for, precisely - I've noticed that if you sufficiently ''flip out on them'' - they don't respond well. They're upset they were yelled at, & soforth. It can become the more immediate focus in the conflict for them. They'll stubbornly wait for you to apologize to them/initiate discussion.

    I've observed this dynamic unfold with an ISFJ / ISFP couple..numerous times.

    ISFP does something that upsets the ISFJ.
    ISFJ assumes he should know, may give some silent treatment, or try to brush it under the rug initially.

    ISFP's behavior repeats.
    ISFJ bottles it up on a shelf of resentment.

    Shelf finally collapses, she flips her shit at him the next time he does it - going as far as listing EVERY instance he's committed the offence (dratted Si).
    ISFP is dumbfounded, overwhelmed by the list, and offended by the harshness of her delivery.

    Both give one another silent treatment for extended periods, waiting for the other to apologize. ISFJ wants the apology because she expects him to know this behavior was inherently offensive, is annoyed she had to explain it to him/may even think because she had to that he doesn't care about her. ISFP wants the apology because he's just had a fucking grenade go off when he was just doin' his thing, feels attacked and perhaps insecure about what's just gone on.


    It's the most tedious garbage ever.

    The dynamic may vary from type to type, of course. Not to mention, the above example is of two rather emotionally underdeveloped people, so it's a bit extreme.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  10. #10
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    Yeah but how is an ISFP that fucking oblivious? I'm having difficulty believing they're really that fucking oblivious that when they do something, and the other person curses and sulks off...

    I mean, I'd understand ISFJ's bottle everything up. But I'm an ESTP. I don't bottle anything up. When I get pissed off, it shows. People think I'm guilt tripping them simply with my body language. My shoulders sink and I just kinda get lethargic and quiet when my feelings are hurt.

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