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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    This was new to you?
    yes, because compared to you I'm a raging moron?

    And...
    I don't know who started the tertiary loop theory nonsense then.
    Those kinds of type theories are not derived from data, they are derived from inconsistencies that people then try to explain in theory. So someone conjectured how current type theory could explain the inconsistency, rather than focus on the system perhaps being flawed.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    yes, because compared to you I'm a raging moron?
    And this is news to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Those kinds of type theories are not derived from data, they are derived from inconsistencies that people then try to explain in theory. So someone conjectured how current type theory could explain the inconsistency, rather than focus on the system perhaps being flawed.
    Yes, like explaining away retrograde motion of the planets with more and more epicycles.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    And this is news to you?
    Okay, I'll grant you points on RHF (Recursive Humor Factor) on that one.



    (sorry, that's the only points smiley we had!)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    The "loops" concept is not from Lenore, though she does have what's called "the Tertiary Temptation" or "Tertiary Defense". But that's not really a "loop" a person gets stuck in. It's just saying that we might turn to the tertiary because it maintains the ego's dominant attitude (and either the dominant can't solve a problem, or we don't want to be pulled into the opposite direction by the auxiliary sometimes).
    I don't even think people originally got it from her; it seems to have come from people trying to explain others' type, and it seemed to possibly explain functions that didn't fit together. Like the ongoing discussion on Jung himself. He seems like he "uses" both Ti and Ni, so he can be an ISTP in a TiNi "loop"; yet he seems so "N", so some have even suggested INFJ in an NiTi "loop". Then, Lenore's teaching on the tertiary seemed to go along with that, so some may attribute it to her. But it's really an exaggeration of her and others' teaching.
    Lenore kind of implies that people can get "stuck" in the tertiary defense in her examples, for the reason you mention (avoiding an extroverted attitude for introverts & vice versa for extroverts), but then she offers the aux as the "solution". The tertiary defense/temptation comes from avoiding/dealing with the unpleasantness of the inferior. It's sort of sticking your head in the sand when it goes beyond relief though (perhaps because it is "childlike" and it's avoiding an issue in the other attitude, so to spea). The aux, then, become some kind of workaround solution. It's like, "oh hey, I can extrovert (or introvert) and not threaten my ego." Something like that.

    So the loop thing is just the idea that this relief can become extended to a point where the tertiary's "childlike" manner makes someone very unbalanced or unhealthy.

    I DO think it's terrible to type people that way. It gets overused & seems like a way to avoid admitting someone is likely another type.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    It's just saying that we might turn to the tertiary because it maintains the ego's dominant attitude
    she said this? i came to the same conclusion after hearing about this dom/tert loop
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  6. #16
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Lenore kind of implies that people can get "stuck" in the tertiary defense in her examples, for the reason you mention (avoiding an extroverted attitude for introverts & vice versa for extroverts), but then she offers the aux as the "solution". The tertiary defense/temptation comes from avoiding/dealing with the unpleasantness of the inferior. It's sort of sticking your head in the sand when it goes beyond relief though (perhaps because it is "childlike" and it's avoiding an issue in the other attitude, so to spea). The aux, then, become some kind of workaround solution. It's like, "oh hey, I can extrovert (or introvert) and not threaten my ego." Something like that.

    So the loop thing is just the idea that this relief can become extended to a point where the tertiary's "childlike" manner makes someone very unbalanced or unhealthy.

    I DO think it's terrible to type people that way. It gets overused & seems like a way to avoid admitting someone is likely another type.
    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    she said this? i came to the same conclusion after hearing about this dom/tert loop
    Still, I never got the impression from her, that this becomes some sort of semi-permanent thing, as people have made it out to be. We say "well, if the person is unhealthy they might be 'stuck' in this 'loop' most of the time", but it sounds to me like a bit of an exaggeration. I think it would be a more situation-by-situation thing. I certainly get heavy into the tertiary defense, especially in a stage I'm going through now (and I've had people think I was an ISJ from this; on the other hand, those who insisted I was Ne dom. implied it as some sort of anima thing), but the Ne is still clearly there and recognizable. I wouldn't say "I'm in a TiSi loop, and it makes me wonder if I'm really an ISTx" or something like that.
    Perhaps I could be wrong when it comes to others, but the point here was, the "loop" concept is not really Lenore's direct teaching, even though it may have been a large part of what people drew on for that.
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