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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Default You Know You're a Perceiver IF...

    Sorry, I'm not going to be jotting down a list of hilarious traits or stereotypes shared by Perceivers.

    I'm feeling rather sick and weak at the moment, so I'll do my best not to offend anybody's intellectual sensibilities.
    ...............
    I've just come back to this after a half-hour, and my physical condition continues to decline rapidly. My wife is refusing to take me to the ER, so I made a deal with her: when I start wheezing, and if the inhaler doesn't help, then she will take me to the ER.

    It's not that I can't drive, but it's just safer if she does the driving. You never know how medicated I will end up being and how this will affect my judgment.

    Let's see what I can write anyway.

    Perceivers (Pe) are defined as those personalities oriented on the external world, while the opposite mode, judgment (Ji), is oriented inward. This produces a character that is lacking in external judgment and so it tends to go to extremes. Internally, where judgment has been refined, moderation in thought and feeling is the key to understanding this mindset.

    so Pe is characterized externally by extremes of behavior and lack of judgment. and Ji is characterized by moderation of internal judgment.
    In this, note that I am talking about the same personality, not two different personalities.

    The extremes of external behavior could be anything from too much working out to overeating. This type is more prone to addiction problems, not that a (different) Ji personality doesn't have addictions, but Pe has the greatest difficulty stopping because of poor external judgment (eg. regarding things like the body and maintaining physical fitness), and a general lack of self-control.

    The Ji side of the same personality, on the other hand, punishes the ego relentlessly for not bringing the other side under control, i.e, into union with the Ji side. But that's all it can seem to do is self-punish, make rational plans that never come to fruition, and self-berate endlessly.

    I'm tired, I'll continue this later. Probably.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #2
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    no, i think you should stop now. you're just saying a lot of bs tbh.

    " lacking in external judgment and so it tends to go to extremes" - no
    "moderation of internal judgment." - no
    "too much working out to overeating" - no
    "more prone to addiction problems" - - no (aren't you mixing this up with the sexual instinct)?
    "punishes the ego relentlessly for not bringing the other side under control" - no it doesn't

    I think you're just halucinating because you're not feeling well. get away from the computer.
    Also, your statements are not backed up by any facts, so why did you even write them down?

  3. #3
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    You keep fluttering back and forth between types yet deep down you don't really want to arrive at a definitive type for yourself, because it seems so final and too much closure.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    You keep fluttering back and forth between types yet deep down you don't really want to arrive at a definitive type for yourself, because it seems so final and too much closure.
    Me? No, I made my mind up about my type 20 years ago.

    But if, according to @pinkgraffiti, I was "halucinating," then why did Jung write the following? -

    "Where the persona is intellectual, the soul is quite certainly sentimental. That the complementary character of the soul is also concerned with the sex-character is a fact which can no longer seriously be doubted. A very feminine woman has a masculine soul, and a very manly man a feminine soul. This opposition is based upon the fact that a man, for instance, is not in all things wholly masculine, but has also certain feminine traits. he, more manly his outer attitude, the more will his womanly traits be effaced; these then appear in the soul. This circumstance explains why it is that the very manly men are most subject to characteristic weaknesses; their attitude to the unconscious has a womanly weakness and impressionability."

    I am making a similar distinction between inner and external attitudes. Was Jung "halucinating" too?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #5
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Me? No, I made my mind up about my type 20 years ago.

    But if, according to pinkgraffiti, I was "halucinating," then why did Jung write the following? -

    "Where the persona is intellectual, the soul is quite certainly sentimental. That the complementary character of the soul is also concerned with the sex-character is a fact which can no longer seriously be doubted. A very feminine woman has a masculine soul, and a very manly man a feminine soul. This opposition is based upon the fact that a man, for instance, is not in all things wholly masculine, but has also certain feminine traits. he, more manly his outer attitude, the more will his womanly traits be effaced; these then appear in the soul. This circumstance explains why it is that the very manly men are most subject to characteristic weaknesses; their attitude to the unconscious has a womanly weakness and impressionability."

    I am making a similar distinction between inner and external attitudes. Was Jung "halucinating" too?
    what jung is talking there isnt type related but about persona and anima/animus..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #6
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    what jung is talking there isnt type related but about persona and anima/animus..
    Persona is type-related.

    "identification with the soul begets an attitude with a predominant orientation towards the inner processes."

    "I term the outer attitude, or outer character, the persona, the inner attitude I term the anima, or soul. In the same degree as an attitude is habitual, is it a more or less firmly welded function-complex, with which the ego may be more or less identified."

    Is a function-complex type-related?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #7
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    If you can't decide whether or not you're really a perceiver.

  8. #8
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Persona is type-related.

    "identification with the soul begets an attitude with a predominant orientation towards the inner processes."

    "I term the outer attitude, or outer character, the persona, the inner attitude I term the anima, or soul. In the same degree as an attitude is habitual, is it a more or less firmly welded function-complex, with which the ego may be more or less identified."

    Is a function-complex type-related?
    function doesent necessarily refer to psychological functions used in typology. anima does have something to do with functions tho, but quite differently than you are assuming based on some one quote that may or may not have anything to do with your view. marie von franz saw inferior function as the "gate" from which the anima, shadow etc come through the most(and i havent heard any objections from jung to this idea), as its the most undifferentiated function and thus most strongly in archaic condition with other contents of the unconscious.

    for example a ruthless king who dominates his whole kingdom with an iron fist(this is his outer attitude, i.e. persona) might be afraid of night and get scared of shadows, because something in his unconscious could be saying something about someone wanting to assassinate him, thus he reacts to this with fear, even tho he acts out all brave and shit. it doesent matter which type the king is, his anima will still be fearful and that way opposite to his persona.

    i hope you dont think that extraverted functions = persona and introverted functions = anima, cuz that would be pretty far off, but also something i could expect from you after all the shit you have been talking

    edit.
    as you mentioned in the quote you posted, persona is the outer character, the way in which the person acts out. for example someone might be realy stoic, aggressive, bubbly etc. these are what persona is about. but ofc type is reflected to persona sometimes to some degree, for example introversion/extraversion is often clearly seen in the persons persona, or that typical anal retentiveness of STJ types and stuff like that.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  9. #9
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    function doesent necessarily refer to psychological functions used in typology. anima does have something to do with functions tho, but quite differently than you are assuming based on some one quote that may or may not have anything to do with your view. marie von franz saw inferior function as the "gate" from which the anima, shadow etc come through the most(and i havent heard any objections from jung to this idea), as its the most undifferentiated function and thus most strongly in archaic condition with other contents of the unconscious.

    for example a ruthless king who dominates his whole kingdom with an iron fist(this is his outer attitude, i.e. persona) might be afraid of night and get scared of shadows, because something in his unconscious could be saying something about someone wanting to assassinate him, thus he reacts to this with fear, even tho he acts out all brave and shit. it doesent matter which type the king is, his anima will still be fearful and that way opposite to his persona.

    i hope you dont think that extraverted functions = persona and introverted functions = anima, cuz that would be pretty far off, but also something i could expect from you after all the shit you have been talking
    If I'm so far off then why do you attempt this intimidation bullcrap? Sounds like I must be onto something, therefore I will continue to pursue it.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #10
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    If I'm so far off then why do you attempt this intimidation bullcrap? Sounds like I must be onto something, therefore I will continue to pursue it.
    do you often feel intimidated when people try to educate you?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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