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  1. #81
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    if one perceives an idea coming from someone else, dont you think that it enters to the persons mind via sensation?
    No, it's esp.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #82
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    No, it's esp.
    nice, now you are getting sarcastic, cuz cant find a proper argument
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #83
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    Agreed with the OP. Socionics judgers/rationals make more sense than mbti judgers.

    Most rationals in socionics have type A tendencies while Irrationals are quoted as saying "like" and "uh" frequently relative to rational judgers. Also, socionics judgers base function is actually a judging function, and percievers a perception function.

    For this reason many socionics subtypes will mistake themselves for their J/P quasi-identical. For example LSI-Ti subtype (celebok on youtube) and LSI-Se subtype (mkingkilla on youtube). Both Ti Se, however one gives the appearance of a judger,the other a perciever, because those are the functions their subtypes prefer, yet they still have the same exact function layout.

    Its the difference between ESTp-Ti Tea Leoni (who many mistake for ENTJ),


    vs

    stereotypical ESTp-Se Michelle Rodriguez.

  4. #84
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Agreed with the OP. Socionics judgers/rationals make more sense than mbti judgers.

    Most rationals in socionics have type A tendencies while Irrationals are quoted as saying "like" and "uh" frequently relative to rational judgers. Also, socionics judgers base function is actually a judging function, and percievers a perception function.

    For this reason many socionics subtypes will mistake themselves for their J/P quasi-identical. For example LSI-Ti subtype (celebok on youtube) and LSI-Se subtype (mkingkilla on youtube). Both Ti Se, however one gives the appearance of a judger,the other a perciever, because those are the functions their subtypes prefer, yet they still have the same exact function layout.

    Its the difference between ESTp-Ti Tea Leoni (who many mistake for ENTJ),


    vs

    stereotypical ESTp-Se Michelle Rodriguez.
    I appreciate the see-through blouse picture. It will surely help me get well sooner. Also, I think the point is even simpler: Once we recognize that I/E for Jung are not the same idea as I/E for the MBTI, this opens up the possibilities you posted above with your sensuous pictorial examples.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #85
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Agreed with the OP. Socionics judgers/rationals make more sense than mbti judgers.

    Most rationals in socionics have type A tendencies while Irrationals are quoted as saying "like" and "uh" frequently relative to rational judgers. Also, socionics judgers base function is actually a judging function, and percievers a perception function.

    For this reason many socionics subtypes will mistake themselves for their J/P quasi-identical. For example LSI-Ti subtype (celebok on youtube) and LSI-Se subtype (mkingkilla on youtube). Both Ti Se, however one gives the appearance of a judger,the other a perciever, because those are the functions their subtypes prefer, yet they still have the same exact function layout.

    Its the difference between ESTp-Ti Tea Leoni (who many mistake for ENTJ),
    ...according to CelebrityTypes.com, a site which should be taken with a grain of salt.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #86
    Senior Member Ribonuke's Avatar
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    I actually agree with this; cognitive functions shouldn't be raw indicators of our temperament. Temperament is also related to independent traits such as how we were raised, life events, other genes/influences. For instance, I'm an INFJ, and I show signs of having Mel-Sang rather than Mel-Phleg, which would mean that I have a temperament and philosophy that more closely resembles an ISTP at times.

    I definitely agree that cognitive functions shouldn't be used to prescribe personality as much as they should be used to help us understand what a person's perspective might be so we can better put ourselves in their shoes.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ribonuke View Post
    I actually agree with this; cognitive functions shouldn't be raw indicators of our temperament. Temperament is also related to independent traits such as how we were raised, life events, other genes/influences. For instance, I'm an INFJ, and I show signs of having Mel-Sang rather than Mel-Phleg, which would mean that I have a temperament and philosophy that more closely resembles an ISTP at times.

    I definitely agree that cognitive functions shouldn't be used to prescribe personality as much as they should be used to help us understand what a person's perspective might be so we can better put ourselves in their shoes.
    You kind of lost me at "raw indicators," but I think you mean "singular indicators."

    Your example ("show signs of having Mel-Sang...") fails to illustrate your point that temperament is related to independent traits.

    I don't know who thinks that cognitive functions "prescribe" (i.e., recommend) personality. However, before we can put ourselves in others shoes we first have to recognize that others think differently than we do. Believe it or not, it is a common human trait to believe that everybody else thinks the same way as we do. If I'm reasonable in a certain way (i.e., in how I think), then that's my version of common-sense and so naturally I believe everybody else must also subscribe to it.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #88
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    You could be Mel-Sup (Supine), which is similar to both Phlegmatic and Sanguine, yet would be grouped in with Phlegmatic (NF) in the type correlation.

    It's true that behavior can be influenced by life events, but that part of “personality” wouldn't be true “temperament”, then, which is based on core “needs” (despite the effect of the external circumstances).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  9. #89
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    You could be Mel-Sup (Supine), which is similar to both Phlegmatic and Sanguine, yet would be grouped in with Phlegmatic (NF) in the type correlation.

    It's true that behavior can be influenced by life events, but that part of “personality” wouldn't be true “temperament”, then, which is based on core “needs” (despite the effect of the external circumstances).
    Great point!
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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