User Tag List

First 56789 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 89

  1. #61
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    14,010

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    john betts is an zürich trained jungian analyst.

    i didnt care to go through all books and articles from jung to search one quote(you apparently did, as you claim that the quote doesent exist), so i just looked up a quote which i remember where it is. i suggest you to go learn more jung and it will become obvious to you too. i think most people will see it as obvious that if something is organized and is a part of a bigger system, the organized part can be called a structure within the bigger system. seriously im starting to doubt whether you are an INTP or not, because this sort of logic should come naturally for INTP..
    You're assuming that archetypes are pre-organized, but organizing is functional. Archetypes are no more than empty forms waiting to be filled with content, thus lending them organization. Learn the distinction between form and structure.

    "In this sense Plato sees the idea [archetype] as a primordial image of things, while Kant defines it as the 'archetype of the use of the mind.' (548) Both Kant and Plato were concerned with forms of things, although transcendentally, in opposite senses.

    And while it's true that even the imagination cannot roam the infinite, but "remains bound to the preformed possibilities, the primordial images or archetypes," (378) those are merely formal conditions, not structures in the mind.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #62
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    14,010

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    john betts is an zürich trained jungian analyst.
    Oh well, he's wrong in this case, as I have shown.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #63
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    And I learned mathematics through sensation. So what? We couldn't get along very well in life without sensation: eyes, ears, nose, skin, tongue. Yours is a non-point that speaks only to normal human physiology.
    Are you sure that the learning process came through sensation and that it wasnt just sensation that triggered a thinking process(concrete thinking). One thing i have noticed about Ti vs Te users is that Te users learn easily just from hearing the problem, for example with mathematics, they just need to memorize the mathematical functions and they can do math just fine using the knowledge. But often Ti users dont learn this way so easily and need to understand the underlying reason behind the mathematical function -> just memorizing the functions without understanding the reason for why that function works the way it does isnt that easy.


    As I said, if all you're talking about is physiological sensation, it's a non-point, and it's unworthy of being stated in the same context as Jung's revolutionary theory.
    u sure?

    "Sensation, or sensing, is that psychological function which transmits a physical stimulus to perception. It is, therefore, identical with perception." -Jung 'psychological types'
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  4. #64
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    14,010

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Are you sure that the learning process came through sensation and that it wasnt just sensation that triggered a thinking process(concrete thinking). One thing i have noticed about Ti vs Te users is that Te users learn easily just from hearing the problem, for example with mathematics, they just need to memorize the mathematical functions and they can do math just fine using the knowledge. But often Ti users dont learn this way so easily and need to understand the underlying reason behind the mathematical function -> just memorizing the functions without understanding the reason for why that function works the way it does isnt that easy.
    That's a side issue based on something you noticed. It's not that I disagree with it, in fact it seems valid enough. But it has nothing to do with the debate at hand. I could add my own observation that Te types are interested in knowledge (memorized or learned) that serves an external purpose. Ti types are interested in knowledge that serves some subjective purpose that may or may not be known to the Ti type.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    u sure?

    "Sensation, or sensing, is that psychological function which transmits a physical stimulus to perception. It is, therefore, identical with perception." -Jung 'psychological types'
    Yes I'm sure it's not a revolutionary thought. Obviously psychologists have to deal with the idea of physiological sensation at some point. It simply forms no part of this particular discussion. Sensation only informs. What matters to the discussion is that Te is interested in (or even psychologically compelled by) external (objective) concretes, or (objective) ideas such as traditions, in contrast with Ti that is not interested in these things but primarily in subjective content.

    I know what you're doing: you're trying desperately to save your original point which was wrong.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #65
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    You're assuming that archetypes are pre-organized, but organizing is functional. Archetypes are no more than empty forms waiting to be filled with content, thus lending them organization. Learn the distinction between form and structure.

    "In this sense Plato sees the idea [archetype] as a primordial image of things, while Kant defines it as the 'archetype of the use of the mind.' (548) Both Kant and Plato were concerned with forms of things, although transcendentally, in opposite senses.

    And while it's true that even the imagination cannot roam the infinite, but "remains bound to the preformed possibilities, the primordial images or archetypes," (378) those are merely formal conditions, not structures in the mind.
    how can there be form if there is no structure? also archetypes are seen as patterns, how can there be pattern if there is no structure?

    you are just talking shit cuz annoyed since
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I'm feeling rather sick and weak at the moment
    or maybe thats all you got.

    I know what you're doing: you're trying desperately to save your original point which was wrong.
    nice projection. prove me wrong or fuck off with your retarded crap
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  6. #66
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    14,010

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    how can there be form if there is no structure? also archetypes are seen as patterns, how can there be pattern if there is no structure?

    you are just talking shit cuz annoyed since or maybe thats all you got.



    nice projection. prove me wrong or fuck off with your retarded crap
    Since you're getting angry already I'll cut you a break. When you said "sensations" and "concretes" back at the beginning of this, what you meant to say was "objective." Because that's the only way to make sense of your gibberish.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #67
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    That's a side issue based on something you noticed. It's not that I disagree with it, in fact it seems valid enough. But it has nothing to do with the debate at hand. I could add my own observation that Te types are interested in knowledge (memorized or learned) that serves an external purpose. Ti types are interested in knowledge that serves some subjective purpose that may or may not be known to the Ti type.



    Yes I'm sure it's not a revolutionary thought. Obviously psychologists have to deal with the idea of physiological sensation at some point. It simply forms no part of this particular discussion. Sensation only informs. What matters to the discussion is that Te is interested in (or even psychologically compelled by) external (objective) concretes, or (objective) ideas such as traditions, in contrast with Ti that is not interested in these things but only in subjective content.

    I know what you're doing: you're trying desperately to save your original point which was wrong.
    again you are just arguing cuz feeling sick. you said that jungs idea of sensation is something beyond the act of perceiving physical stimuli, which isnt true. now when S is extraverted or introverted, it adds to the concept, but as i mentioned before, extraverted functions are oriented by sensation, sensation is what connects the function to the external world. also like mentioned Je can use other objective measures than just being led by sensation, for example what was taught at school or passed on by tradition.

    and my example has very much to do with the argument, its funny that you cant see it.

    now go cry to your mommy or something about being sick, i dont care to argue with you since your arguing isnt even motivated the the subject at hand, but by your bad feelings, which is making you pretty damn irrational and not worthy of arguing against.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  8. #68
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Since you're getting angry already I'll cut you a break. When you said "sensations" and "concretes" back at the beginning of this, what you mean to say was "objective." Because that's the only way to make sense of your gibberish.
    sensation is a way of connecting to the objective realm, learn the basics
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  9. #69
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    14,010

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    again you are just arguing cuz feeling sick. you said that jungs idea of sensation is something beyond the act of perceiving physical stimuli, which isnt true. now when S is extraverted or introverted, it adds to the concept, but as i mentioned before, extraverted functions are oriented by sensation, sensation is what connects the function to the external world. also like mentioned Je can use other objective measures than just being led by sensation, for example what was taught at school or passed on by tradition.

    and my example has very much to do with the argument, its funny that you cant see it.

    now go cry to your mommy or something about being sick,



    i dont care to argue with you since your arguing isnt even motivated the the subject at hand, but by your bad feelings, which is making you pretty damn irrational and not worthy of arguing against.
    Speculative.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #70
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    14,010

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    sensation is a way of connecting to the objective realm, learn the basics
    Duh. The discussion isn't about "connecting" to the objective realm. It never was. You mispoke by calling the objective side "concretes" and "sensations," when in fact that would limit Te's auxiliary function to Sensing.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

Similar Threads

  1. Do you see the problem with typing others? Is it worth it?
    By Chancelade in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 01-23-2014, 07:37 PM
  2. Replies: 91
    Last Post: 01-23-2011, 07:49 PM
  3. [MBTItm] ISTj Ultimatum from ENFP-(pref. if you are famaliar with us)
    By NetJunkie2 in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-24-2010, 02:53 AM
  4. What happens if you are in the middle?
    By Jon_sparky in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-23-2010, 05:54 PM
  5. Replies: 35
    Last Post: 03-15-2010, 10:46 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO