Unobservant people

[greenfairy]

I've noticed this with my ISFJ mom and my INFP cousin, so I'm guessing it's Si vs Se: they will ask me where something is or if we have something without even looking, or complain that they don't know where something is. I always know where things are. I pretty much know where everything I own is. Not only do I usually put things in the same places, but I retain a visual memory of where things were last. I look in the refrigerator to see what we have. I look at what is in the cabinets and on the counter tops. I've done this so many times (whenever I get hungry, because I want to know what there is to eat) I could pretty much recite 80% of what is in the kitchen. They on the other hand will ask me where something is when they could just open the door of the refrigerator and see it right in front of them.

Why do people do this, and what is responsible? How hard is it to observe your surroundings?

And does this mean I use Se, contradicting what I posted here:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6961&page=460&p=2092252#post2092252?

 

[Mal12345]

I don't know what you mean by the statement "I use Se." We all "use Se." I'm "using Se" while I type this.

But that's not what Se is. It has more to do with enjoying the use of the senses. What you're doing is keeping track of items, like Te.

My wife is an ISFP, and she has giving me much opportunity to observe Se.

 

[011235813]

This seems similar to when people ask for information that they could very easily google. I don't know if I'd attribute it to functions necessarily, it just seems like a lower degree of self-reliance to me.

 

[zago]

Sensates are much more observant of the physical environment, in 2 different ways respective to Se and Si.

Se types literally notice raw physical details and their possibilities for expression.

Si types notice whether physical things are as expected, what is out of place. This explains the introversion of the function - introversion is always like the meta-version of the extroverted function.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

It is very difficult to observe surroundings. My husband and I are both spacey, but in different ways. I rely heavily on technology to create grocery lists and so forth. I have almost zero idea where my stuff is unless it is in drawers that are labeled - which I do create. Our place is a funny combination of being very organized, but also kind of a mess. We occasionally have organizing projects (or I do - haha) where I clearly label where things are, and try to keep things almost where they are anyway, but just add a set of drawers or something, so that it isn't just a big, random pile. Stuff stresses me out a great deal because I don't have a visual memory of where any of it is.

 

[Giggly]

This is a trait of people who have the tendency to outwardly express their every thought or feeling in the moment rather than introspecting. Some people are "fleeting" in the sense that they go from thought to thought or action to action, all in the moment as they are occurring and they express or verbalize this process to various degrees. The main thing is that they are less inclined to introspect first. Doing this makes them feel happy and energized too.

 

[EJCC]

I don't know if I'd attribute it to functions necessarily, it just seems like a lower degree of self-reliance to me.

^ This!

 

[cafe]

I'm basically responsible for knowing where *everything* is almost all the time. For six people and two dogs. I may not know where everything is right off the top of my head, but I can usually find it within a few minutes.

Unless it's my keys . . .

 

[Ginkgo]

The best information is always taken, no questions asked.

 

[greenfairy]

I don't know what you mean by the statement "I use Se." We all "use Se." I'm "using Se" while I type this.

But that's not what Se is. It has more to do with enjoying the use of the senses. What you're doing is keeping track of items, like Te.

My wife is an ISFP, and she has giving me much opportunity to observe Se.

Well right, and I agree with this. The expression is just shorthand for being in the top 4 functions, meaning you have adequately conscious use of it a lot of the time.

This seems similar to when people ask for information that they could very easily google. I don't know if I'd attribute it to functions necessarily, it just seems like a lower degree of self-reliance to me.

I'm thinking you are right about this.

Se types literally notice raw physical details and their possibilities for expression.

Interesting; can you give an example of this please?

It is very difficult to observe surroundings. My husband and I are both spacey, but in different ways. I rely heavily on technology to create grocery lists and so forth. I have almost zero idea where my stuff is unless it is in drawers that are labeled - which I do create. Our place is a funny combination of being very organized, but also kind of a mess. We occasionally have organizing projects (or I do - haha) where I clearly label where things are, and try to keep things almost where they are anyway, but just add a set of drawers or something, so that it isn't just a big, random pile. Stuff stresses me out a great deal because I don't have a visual memory of where any of it is.

That's interesting you and [MENTION=4]cafe[/MENTION] have such different experiences and are the same type; either it has to do with functions and they express themselves in different ways or it's not function/type related. I have heard it said (by DJ Arendee) that J types can be really organized precisely because they have to be to function, whereas P types can function in chaos.

This is a trait of people who have the tendency to outwardly express their every thought or feeling in the moment rather than introspecting. Some people are "fleeting" in the sense that they go from thought to thought or action to action, all in the moment as they are occurring and they express or verbalize this process to various degrees. The main thing is that they are less inclined to introspect first. Doing this makes them feel happy and energized too.

I'm thinking this is correct too. This is my mom all over. It's annoying.

 

[zago]

Interesting; can you give an example of this please?

Noticing what clothes catch the eye and compliment the features.
Feeling and experimenting with physical sensations.
Creating a viscerally striking image, either with their own body or as a separate work of art.
Noting the way the environment appears.

 

[Ginkgo]

Sucking on limp dicks is a lot like having chewing gum stuck in between your teeth.

 

[highlander]

I've noticed this with my ISFJ mom and my INFP cousin, so I'm guessing it's Si vs Se: they will ask me where something is or if we have something without even looking, or complain that they don't know where something is. I always know where things are. I pretty much know where everything I own is. Not only do I usually put things in the same places, but I retain a visual memory of where things were last. I look in the refrigerator to see what we have. I look at what is in the cabinets and on the counter tops. I've done this so many times (whenever I get hungry, because I want to know what there is to eat) I could pretty much recite 80% of what is in the kitchen. They on the other hand will ask me where something is when they could just open the door of the refrigerator and see it right in front of them.

Why do people do this, and what is responsible? How hard is it to observe your surroundings?

And does this mean I use Se, contradicting what I posted here:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6961&page=460&p=2092252#post2092252?

My memory is selective. On the one hand, I can know where a particular thing is months after I put it somewhere in a stack of papers somewhere or in a specific spot. On the other hand, I lose my keys, my wallet, the glass I'm drinking out of and things like that all the time and it causes me some level of distress. I can be observant of surroundings or completely oblivious of them. Depends on whether or not I'm absorbed thinking about something I suppose.

 

[cafe]

That's interesting you and [MENTION=4]cafe[/MENTION] have such different experiences and are the same type; either it has to do with functions and they express themselves in different ways or it's not function/type related. I have heard it said (by DJ Arendee) that J types can be really organized precisely because they have to be to function, whereas P types can function in chaos.

For me, it's a survival mechanism. The schools don't think it's funny if your kids are late because someone is missing a shoe.

 

[Giggly]

I'm thinking this is correct too. This is my mom all over. It's annoying.

Like Miss Bates in "Emma"

 

[greenfairy]

Noticing what clothes catch the eye and compliment the features.
Feeling and experimenting with physical sensations.
Creating a viscerally striking image, either with their own body or as a separate work of art.
Noting the way the environment appears.

Hm. How would this contrast with Si in the same situations? I think I'm good with both.

My memory is selective. On the one hand, I can know where a particular thing is months after I put it somewhere in a stack of papers somewhere or in a specific spot. On the other hand, I lose my keys, my wallet, the glass I'm drinking out of and things like that all the time and it causes me some level of distress. I can be observant of surroundings or completely oblivious of them. Depends on whether or not I'm absorbed thinking about something I suppose.

I think I can be the same way.

 

[zago]

Hm. How would this contrast with Si in the same situations? I think I'm good with both.

Good question.

For example, Se types might tend to be the ones that come up with certain styles of fashion that can compliment the human form, even break the mold. Si types catch on to these later on and adopt them as a standard - are people wearing what's in style? Are people well dressed? If they are dressed abnormally, what questions does this raise?

Si types are excellent inspectors for this reason. They rapidly notice inconsistencies from the generally standard behavior and environment.

 

[greenfairy]

Good question.

It seems to be the only way I can really make sense of the functions.

For example, Se types might tend to be the ones that come up with certain styles of fashion that can compliment the human form, even break the mold. Si types catch on to these later on and adopt them as a standard - are people wearing what's in style? Are people well dressed? If they are dressed abnormally, what questions does this raise?

Si types are excellent inspectors for this reason. They rapidly notice inconsistencies from the generally standard behavior and environment.

Ah, hence the ESFJ reputation for conformity (Fe+Si). I think I'm more Si then.

Thanks. I think I would agree that the contrast seems to fit what I know of the definitions.

 

[Elfboy]

It seems to be the only way I can really make sense of the functions.
Ah, hence the ESFJ reputation for conformity (Fe+Si). I think I'm more Si then.
Thanks. I think I would agree that the contrast seems to fit what I know of the definitions.

as I see it
Si: conformity with the past
Fe: conformity with the present

 

[greenfairy]

as I see it
Si: conformity with the past
Fe: conformity with the present

So linking the two is paying attention to trends?