• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

I want to translate the cognitive functions.

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I'm trying to get a good handle on all the cognitive functions. I've come up with a couple words that can be closely associated with the functions as I understand them. If I'm way off, let me know. Let me know which ones are spot on, too.


Te = facts, investigation, function
Ti = logic, analysis
Ne = possibilities, potential
Ni= imagination
Si = the experience,aesthetics
Se = maneuvering, situational power and presence
Fe = preference/ emotional "energy" broadcasts and frequencies,empathy
Fi = personal preferences,ethics, wishes
 

INTP

Active member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
7,803
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx
i wouldnt agree with those definitions(too broad, trying to put things that are unrelated to some function etc). also this sort of approach isnt what functions are about, functions are about gathering information(P functions) and processing that information(J functions), not about wishes, ethics and that sort of stuff. not to mention that you are making way too big of a distinction between introverted and extraverted function attitudes. the I and E version is just a different approach to the same function.

http://www.nyaap.org/jung-lexicon/o said:
In Jung’s model of typology, a thinking attitude is oriented by the principle of logic; a sensation attitude is oriented by the direct perception of concrete facts; intuition orients itself to future possibilities; and feeling is governed by subjective worth. Each of these attitudes may operate in an introverted or extraverted way.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
i wouldnt agree with those definitions(too broad, trying to put things that are unrelated to some function etc). also this sort of approach isnt what functions are about, functions are about gathering information(P functions) and processing that information(J functions), not about wishes, ethics and that sort of stuff. not to mention that you are making way too big of a distinction between introverted and extraverted function attitudes. the I and E version is just a different approach to the same function.

Interesting. I would say I wasn't so much trying to define the functions as provide "metaphors" for them. They're not meant as strict definitions, but rather "you could think of the functions like this."

Nonetheless, it seems like i got sensation wrong.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Interesting. I would say I wasn't so much trying to define the functions as provide "metaphors" for them. They're not meant as strict definitions, but rather "you could think of the functions like this."

Nonetheless, it seems like i got sensation wrong.

"A sensation attitude is oriented by the direct perception of concrete facts." A fact isn't a perceived fact until it has first been judged a fact. So I would be careful about picking up little tidbits from webpages, they often reflect the personalities and cognitive styles of those creating them. That's why you see so many type descriptions biased by NT and NF, the types most interested in exploring this topic.

"Te = facts, investigation, function
Ti = logic, analysis
Ne = possibilities, potential
Ni= imagination
Si = the experience,aesthetics
Se = maneuvering, situational power and presence
Fe = preference/ emotional "energy" broadcasts and frequencies,empathy
Fi = personal preferences,ethics, wishes"

I don't think these are too far off. Your ideas about Se and Si are, as you've already noted, pretty out of whack. Si prefers concrete symbols and mythology. Se anticipates an experience, enjoys it, and then moves on to the next experience. Se is the most "in the moment" function.
 

INTP

Active member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
7,803
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx
Interesting. I would say I wasn't so much trying to define the functions as provide "metaphors" for them. They're not meant as strict definitions, but rather "you could think of the functions like this."

Nonetheless, it seems like i got sensation wrong.

Well i dont think you can think of the functions like that, because thats not what functions are :p . But the Si part was pretty close, when sensation is introverted, its the strength of the aesthetic qualities of sensation that is the determining factor, not the strength of the sensory information(as it is in Se). This doesent mean that Se users dont experience aesthetics, but its just not the thing for them which determines where thinking or feeling is directed. Equally Si users do see sensory information(but are not so often consciously processing it as Se users are), but the sensory information itself isnt what guides consciousness. You see Si users are Ne users and are more interested about the possibilities which are inherit in the sensory information, rather than looking simply 'what is' in front of them.

pretty common definitions for functions(which were said by jung somewhere and was said in our personality psychology class) are that:

sensation tells that a thing is(trough sensory perception ofc)
thinking tells what the thing is(logical analysis)
feeling tells what the thing is worth and whether it is acceptable or not(subjective reflection of its worth)
intuitions tells where the thing came from and where it is going to(perception of possibilities via unconscious)
 

zago

New member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
1,162
MBTI Type
INTP
Something you need to remember is that introversion is like the meta version of the raw extroverted function.

I took some notes on this last night, actually. I was pretty pleased.

Ne:
Expression of ideas. Seizing and illuminating the unseen, drawing connections, determining possibilities. Contrasting the existing context.
Danger: too much novelty for its own sake. Ridiculousness. Too far out of context, or hostile toward accepted context. Seen as weird and/or aggressive.

Ni:
A big picture focus on the human mind itself, how it thinks and sees things, what its boundaries and capabilities are, how it responds to circumstances. How have ideas evolved over time and how have they stayed the same? How do perspectives change? How does the present manifest this? What are the things people tend to think of?
Danger: Insanity by going too far gone down the rabbit hole of the mind; disconnection from physical world.

Te:
Actively applying impersonal logic to the outer world. Managing, measuring, building, applying facts and theories. Making and following rules.
Danger: Inhumanity; treating people as objects with no regard to feelings; coldness; overly driven to succeed

Ti:
Understanding that all of the systems of history were nothing more than layers on pure physical reality. Examining the absolute, timeless reality that underlies all man made systems, measurements, and rules. Analysis of the big picture, categorization. Application of timeless principles of logic.
Danger: Excessive deconstruction that leads to paralysis, falling out of context of society, excessive practicality.

Se:
Literally notice raw physical details and their possibilities for expression. Feeling and experimenting with physical sensations. Creating a viscerally striking image, either with their own body or as a separate work of art. Noting the way the environment appears.
Danger: Superficiality, excessive image, impulsive recklessness, hedonism.

Si:
Notice whether the physical environment conforms to expectations. How does the present environment connect to the past? Creating standards to expect. Noting when things are out of standard context or out of place. Making the world more like the well accepted standard.
Danger: stuck in the past, stuck in old ways of thought, inability to change with the times.

Fe:
Displaying culturally defined outward behaviors of inclusion and exclusion. Demonstrating interpersonal value in culturally defined ways. Weddings, ceremonies, parties, holidays, participation in organizations, following trends, etc.
Danger: Hollowness. Grand, empty displays of social importance that render the feelings involved invisible and go far, far beyond practicality.

Fi:
Realizing the timeless interpersonal connection that exists at the heart of the myriad cultural displays of interpersonal value. Finding the true feelings of other people that transcend cultural manifestations and experiences.
Danger: Softness, defeatism, inaction caused by unwillingness to maintain professional distance.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Something you need to remember is that introversion is like the meta version of the raw extroverted function.

I took some notes on this last night, actually. I was pretty pleased.

Ne:
Expression of ideas. Seizing and illuminating the unseen, drawing connections, determining possibilities. Contrasting the existing context.
Danger: too much novelty for its own sake. Ridiculousness. Too far out of context, or hostile toward accepted context. Seen as weird and/or aggressive.

Ni:
A big picture focus on the human mind itself, how it thinks and sees things, what its boundaries and capabilities are, how it responds to circumstances. How have ideas evolved over time and how have they stayed the same? How do perspectives change? How does the present manifest this? What are the things people tend to think of?
Danger: Insanity by going too far gone down the rabbit hole of the mind; disconnection from physical world.

Te:
Actively applying impersonal logic to the outer world. Managing, measuring, building, applying facts and theories. Making and following rules.
Danger: Inhumanity; treating people as objects with no regard to feelings; coldness; overly driven to succeed

Ti:
Understanding that all of the systems of history were nothing more than layers on pure physical reality. Examining the absolute, timeless reality that underlies all man made systems, measurements, and rules. Analysis of the big picture, categorization. Application of timeless principles of logic.
Danger: Excessive deconstruction that leads to paralysis, falling out of context of society, excessive practicality.

Se:
Literally notice raw physical details and their possibilities for expression. Feeling and experimenting with physical sensations. Creating a viscerally striking image, either with their own body or as a separate work of art. Noting the way the environment appears.
Danger: Superficiality, excessive image, impulsive recklessness, hedonism.

Si:
Notice whether the physical environment conforms to expectations. How does the present environment connect to the past? Creating standards to expect. Noting when things are out of standard context or out of place. Making the world more like the well accepted standard.
Danger: stuck in the past, stuck in old ways of thought, inability to change with the times.

Nobody gets Si right on this forum.
 

zago

New member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
1,162
MBTI Type
INTP
That's awesome. I make a brilliant post and all anyone has to offer is some nitpick that probably isn't even based on anything. Sometimes I hate.
 

Evo

Unapologetic being
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
3,160
MBTI Type
XNTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I'm trying to get a good handle on all the cognitive functions. I've come up with a couple words that can be closely associated with the functions as I understand them. If I'm way off, let me know. Let me know which ones are spot on, too.


Te = facts, investigation, function
Ti = logic, analysis
Ne = possibilities, potential
Ni= imagination
Si = the experience,aesthetics
Se = maneuvering, situational power and presence
Fe = preference/ emotional "energy" broadcasts and frequencies,empathy
Fi = personal preferences,ethics, wishes

These are ok, I like Se and Fe especially. I would like to add efficiency to Te...but that's just me...to me that would sum up Te in total...In a literal sense too...Someone with Te can take a 10 page paper and consolidate it into 2 paragraghs.

That's awesome. I make a brilliant post and all anyone has to offer is some nitpick that probably isn't even based on anything. Sometimes I hate.

The things you have on Ni are pretty awesome :)
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Something you need to remember is that introversion is like the meta version of the raw extroverted function.

I took some notes on this last night, actually. I was pretty pleased.

Ne:
Expression of ideas. Seizing and illuminating the unseen, drawing connections, determining possibilities. Contrasting the existing context.
Danger: too much novelty for its own sake. Ridiculousness. Too far out of context, or hostile toward accepted context. Seen as weird and/or aggressive.



Ti:
Understanding that all of the systems of history were nothing more than layers on pure physical reality. Examining the absolute, timeless reality that underlies all man made systems, measurements, and rules. Analysis of the big picture, categorization. Application of timeless principles of logic.
Danger: Excessive deconstruction that leads to paralysis, falling out of context of society, excessive practicality.

Fe:
Displaying culturally defined outward behaviors of inclusion and exclusion. Demonstrating interpersonal value in culturally defined ways. Weddings, ceremonies, parties, holidays, participation in organizations, following trends, etc.
Danger: Hollowness. Grand, empty displays of social importance that render the feelings involved invisible and go far, far beyond practicality.

Ne and Ti are very good. However, I don't agree with the emphasis on cultural convention for Fi. I know someone who is an IXFJ that's in a polyamorous relationship. That's most definitely not a cultural convention.

These are ok, I like Se and Fe especially. I would like to add efficiency to Te...but that's just me...to me that would sum up Te in total...In a literal sense too...Someone with Te can take a 10 page paper and consolidate it into 2 paragraghs.

I didn't include efficency, because I felt it covered by functionality. Efficiency has to do with how well something works. Fe was tricky. I found "values" to be too damn vauge, so I was trying to find something else to use.

Apparently, my description of Fi is off, however. That doesn't surprise me, because I usually can't make sense of it myself.
 

zago

New member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
1,162
MBTI Type
INTP
Ne and Ti are very good. However, I don't agree with the emphasis on cultural convention for Fi. I know someone who is an IXFJ that's in a polyamorous relationship. That's most definitely not a cultural convention.

Not to be blunt, but the fact that you "know someone" isn't much. It's always possible that you've typed them incorrectly, but it really doesn't even need to be. Exceptions always exist and tend to be created by unique circumstances. An INFJ is fully capable, with her Ni, of looking at a much broader picture and realizing that polyamory is not exactly unconventional through history (recommended reading: The Art of Seduction by Robert Green.. people have always been lawless in love). An SFJ would be less likely to do this because they tend to go by the conventions of their more local culture, but even then exception is still possible under the right circumstances. Of course, the 2 still will share many commonalities even though one is more current and local and one is more global and historical.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
"A sensation attitude is oriented by the direct perception of concrete facts." A fact isn't a perceived fact until it has first been judged a fact.

Wait, so then how can Si perceive facts at all, if they aren't facts until they go through Te or Fe? What does Si dooooooooooo?
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Wait, so then how can Si perceive facts at all, if they aren't facts until they go through Te or Fe? What does Si dooooooooooo?

Sit around and drink coffee.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Like Agent Cooper?

Third reply and counting. Agent Cooper is the Ni-dom type. I didn't look closely enough to figure out his auxiliary type.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Third reply and counting. Agent Cooper is the Ni-dom type. I didn't look closely enough to figure out his auxiliary type.

Actually.... that makes sense. Just... sitting and enjoying coffee made me think of Agent Cooper.
 

mintleaf

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
505
MBTI Type
infp
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp
Agent Cooper is an INFJ and a babe

Si descriptions are generally shit, and like msg_v2 said, only describe Si in conjunction with Je instead of isolating its specific function. Case in point:

In SJ types, Si often translates into an adherence to existing facts, traditions, worldviews, or methods.

My best guess as to what Si does is absorb sensory information head-on, without toying with the lenses like Ni. In other words, Ni is able to tinker with perception and try out different angles more readily than Si. Si tries to create a cohesive narrative using the information most readily available and obviously applicable. I know that my description also conjoins it with Je, but its very nature makes it less independent than Ni.

Of course Si users may be really adept at synthesizing information and exploring new possibilities, but that's due to well-functioning Ne, which wakes them up from said adherence to one-dimensional incoming information.

Maybe:
Si = camera --> Ne = creative editing tools [looking outward for novel possibilities]
Ni = camera + distorting filter --> Se = corrective editing tools [looking outward to filter out the unreal]

Se = mirror --> Ni = ???
Ne = funhouse mirrors --> Si = ???

Camera for Pi because the process is obviously more inward, whereas mirrors, like Pe, provide a more immediate and objective reflection of reality.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Agent Cooper is an INFJ and a babe

Si descriptions are generally shit, and like msg_v2 said, only describe Si in conjunction with Je instead of isolating its specific function. Case in point:



My best guess as to what Si does is absorb sensory information head-on, without toying with the lenses like Ni. In other words, Ni is able to tinker with perception and try out different angles more readily than Si. Si tries to create a cohesive narrative using the information most readily available and obviously applicable. I know that my description also conjoins it with Je, but its very nature makes it less independent than Ni.

Of course Si users may be really adept at synthesizing information and exploring new possibilities, but that's due to well-functioning Ne, which wakes them up from said adherence to one-dimensional incoming information.

Maybe:
Si = camera --> Ne = creative editing tools [looking outward for novel possibilities]
Ni = camera + distorting filter --> Se = corrective editing tools [looking outward to filter out the unreal]

Se = mirror --> Ni = ???
Ne = funhouse mirrors --> Si = ???

Camera for Pi because the process is obviously more inward, whereas mirrors, like Pe, provide a more immediate and objective reflection of reality.

Every new experience for the Si type is filtered through a backdrop of personal and cultural experiences raised to the level of symbolism. Things don't simply exist for the Si, they exist as representations. These representations however are of a concrete form, unlike those of the Ni type which are more in the nature of a bizarre fantasy that seems more real than reality, and doesn't merely represent it symbolically.

These symbolic representations stir powerful feelings in the Si type, although this may not be apparent as this type is skilled at suppressing the appearance of feelings. Nor will the Si type give you even a glimpse at his or her inner life unless some artistic talent is present. In this way, the Si type may express obscured feelings through some artistic medium. The result, however, is nothing like a fantastic Ni artistic representation, but concrete and rather somber. The Si type will only reveal his or her true self directly to those who are very closely related emotionally and intellectually.
 
Top