User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 77

  1. #21
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    What did I say that made you say this?

    And what is this theory of yours?
    It was this, to begin with: "I can just know, understand and feel things beyond my own experience in the most bizarre way," combined with the fact that you list yourself as an INFP. What you described is Ni, not Fi. At least the Si type is in familiar surroundings when confronted with unconscious content. The Ni sees it as bizarre, and distances this unconscious content from the ego.

    It's not a theory really, it's from my reading of the type descriptions. Your statements reminded me of something I've known for a while.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #22
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    It was this, to begin with: "I can just know, understand and feel things beyond my own experience in the most bizarre way," combined with the fact that you list yourself as an INFP. What you described is Ni, not Fi. At least the Si type is in familiar surroundings when confronted with unconscious content. The Ni sees it as bizarre, and distances this unconscious content from the ego.

    It's not a theory really, it's from my reading of the type descriptions. Your statements reminded me of something I've known for a while.
    Hmmm.

    But I not sure how much I'm combining subjective experience and objective judgement of the situation. By saying it's "bizarre" I imagine that I was comparing what I know of others' internal experience of their minds with my own. I don't find the immediate experience itself uncanny.

    It is interesting that you see that, though. I never imagined I could come across as Ni.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  3. #23
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Hmmm.

    But I not sure how much I'm combining subjective experience and objective judgement of the situation. By saying it's "bizarre" I imagine that I was comparing what I know of others' internal experience of their minds with my own. I don't find the immediate experience itself uncanny.

    It is interesting that you see that, though. I never imagined I could come across as Ni.
    At any rate, if I hadn't seen your INFP I would have thought you were another type.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #24
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I can just know, understand and feel things beyond my own experience in the most bizarre way. I know exactly how it would feel to be in love, despite never having been anywhere near feeling it in life - I know it because I can literally create and experience the feeling itself in my head (and body). I can't really justify or explain this in any objective manner, but I feel like I'm connected with the very depths of my mind, to a place that's universal among all human beings. It's like being able to delve deep into the 'muscles' of the mind (that are funadamental to all human beings); to be able to see and understand how each sinew contracts and expands; and even to be able to manipulate them to some degree to create certain feelings/impressions/reactions within myself. I'm sure that probably sounds like BS to everyone else but I assure you it's very real to me.

    And I don't know if that makes it closest to the Unconscious or not. It being a Judging function might complicate things a bit.


    Just as a side note, when I was much younger my mom & sister would insist I could not understand something because I had never been in love, and that my view would change after I had experienced it. Generally, it has not changed me. It was quite close to what I expected it to be, so much so a thrill can be lost as it doesn't seem all that new (& it's as if I've lived things more intensely in my head).

    I also had insight beyond my age into things so that I coud give advice & find it worked for others, despite never having experienced what they were going through. I never really knew how I knew these things also, but when I think about it, I did use myself as a sort of testing ground for many human experiences, often using fantasy or some kind of art (music, literature, etc) to stir some reaction & then analyze it. From there I had concepts of what is significant, good, beneficial, detrimental, etc, for people. Fi is not the stirring up of emotion or exploring fantasy or experiencing some art, but it's the assignment of meaning to these inner experiences, and that is rational judging, although nothing like Je or what most people think of judging as.

    ----------

    After reading Jung, I think Si is less connected to the unconscious collective than Fi or even Ti in a conscious way (er, if that makes sense). The way Si connects to it is when the unknown looms like scary monsters (metaphor), and the stored concrete impressions are what they use to sort of beat those down. The tangible & factual things which seem to arbitrarily strike the Si type do so because they hit on those unconscious images though, but the person apparently doesn't make a direct connection consciously. But objects & facts & experiences, etc, are held to have meaning in & of themselves because on some level they are symbols to the Si type. The person focuses more on the impression these objects give them & what those impressions mean than the literal use or meaning of the object, but they often conflate the two so that they don't see how others don't see how an object (or fact or experience) "obviously" means something very specific. What I think is going on there is a heavy, heavy influence of the unconscious, but not an awareness of it. Odd combo. Si-dom are actually very odd. INPs can be very odd in part due to Si also...

    ----------

    Concerning Ne, it seems the individual also often does not consciously experience intuitions as arriving from the background of their own mind. I see this in Ne-doms. Possibilites are REAL like objects to them, not projections. This occasionally makes them seem delusional.

    Ne:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jung
    Intuition as the function of unconscious perception is wholly directed upon outer objects in the extraverted attitude. Because, in the main, intuition is an unconscious process, the conscious apprehension of its nature is a very difficult matter. In consciousness, the intuitive function is represented by a certain attitude of expectation, a perceptive and penetrating vision...

    ....by no means a mere perception, or awareness, but an active, creative process that builds into the object just as much as it takes out. But, because this process extracts the perception unconsciously, it also produces an unconscious effect in the object.

    He actually has sensations, but he is not guided by them per se, merely using them as directing-points for his distant vision. They are selected by unconscious expectation. Not the strongest sensation, in the physiological sense, obtains the crucial value, but any sensation whatsoever whose value happens to become considerably enhanced by reason of the intuitive's unconscious attitude. In this way it may eventually attain the leading position, appearing to the intuitive's consciousness indistinguishable from a pure sensation. But actually it is not so.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #25
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post


    Just as a side note, when I was much younger my mom & sister would insist I could not understand something because I had never been in love, and that my view would change after I had experienced it. Generally, it has not changed me. It was quite close to what I expected it to be, so much so a thrill can be lost as it doesn't seem all that new (& it's as if I've lived things more intensely in my head).

    I also had insight beyond my age into things so that I coud give advice & find it worked for others, despite never having experienced what they were going through.
    I understand why people react like that because it just sounds like hubris. There's just no way to explain it without coming across as an idiotic know-it-all . Besides, people just don't want to believe that it's possible. For that reason, I mostly keep it to myself (even on TC as well). However, like yourself, I do give a lot of advice about things I have no experience of.

    I never really knew how I knew these things also, but when I think about it, I did use myself as a sort of testing ground for many human experiences, often using fantasy or some kind of art (music, literature, etc) to stir some reaction & then analyze it. From there I had concepts of what is significant, good, beneficial, detrimental, etc, for people. Fi is not the stirring up of emotion or exploring fantasy or experiencing some art, but it's the assignment of meaning to these inner experiences, and that is rational judging, although nothing like Je or what most people think of judging as.


    I've even done that in dreams and learnt something useful from it. It's a detachment from the restrictions of conscious/immediate thoughts and feelings and a lapse into a sort of meditative, unbound mental state - and there are a variety of ways to achieve that. But like you say, the crucial part for Fi is assigning meaning to it.

    What I think is going on there is a heavy, heavy influence of the unconscious, but not an awareness of it. Odd combo. Si-dom are actually very odd. INPs can be very odd in part due to Si also...
    But to what degree is Ni aware of it? Doesn't Pi read the transmission of information but not the information itself - like trying to pick up a TV signal?
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  6. #26
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    But there is something very strange about Fi, and I say this as a dominant user. I can just know something's a certain way without having any rational reason to believe it to be so. I can just know, understand and feel things beyond my own experience in the most bizarre way. I know exactly how it would feel to be in love, despite never having been anywhere near feeling it in life - I know it because I can literally create and experience the feeling itself in my head (and body). I can't really justify or explain this in any objective manner, but I feel like I'm connected with the very depths of my mind, to a place that's universal among all human beings. It's like being able to delve deep into the 'muscles' of the mind (that are fundamental to all human beings); to be able to see and understand how each sinew contracts and expands; and even to be able to manipulate them to some degree to create certain feelings/impressions/reactions within myself. I'm sure that probably sounds like BS to everyone else but I assure you it's very real to me.
    Judgment. It's the new perception.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  7. #27
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Also...


    OP, the unconscious?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  8. #28
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    But to what degree is Ni aware of it? Doesn't Pi read the transmission of information but not the information itself - like trying to pick up a TV signal?
    To me, it sounds like Ni skips to the symbol as a mental image and disregards any object stimulus, hence more of a detachment. The object has no meaning in & of itself then, and it leaves no impression that could be connected directly to it, which is why their insights feel mystical. Their subconscious is supposedly more conscious. It's like visual metaphor, supposedly. That's what it sounds like to me anyway .

    Oh, and I'll add that what we both described as Fi is often described by others who also type as INFP and who relate most to Jungian Fi than any other of his types. The pattern is very clear. Those who don't see Fi that way are those who don't use it & don't grasp it. They tend to confuse it with Ni when they also aren't a type with Ni.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  9. #29
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    After reading Jung, I think Si is less connected to the unconscious collective than Fi or even Ti in a conscious way (er, if that makes sense). The way Si connects to it is when the unknown looms like scary monsters (metaphor), and the stored concrete impressions are what they use to sort of beat those down.
    Do you have a Jung quote to back up this claim?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #30
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Do you have a Jung quote to back up this claim?
    You'll notice I said, "I think", as in, that's my interpretation, but here is partly what it's based on:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jung on Si
    Above all, his development estranges him from the reality of the object, handing him over to his subjective perceptions, which orientate his consciousness in accordance with an archaic reality, although his deficiency in comparative judgment keeps him wholly unaware of this fact. Actually he moves in a mythological world, where men animals, railways, houses, rivers, and mountains appear partly as benevolent deities and partly as malevolent demons. That thus they, appear to him never enters his mind, although their effect upon his judgments and acts can bear no other interpretation. He judges and acts as [p. 504] though he had such powers to deal with; but this begins to strike him only when he discovers that his sensations are totally different from reality.

    His unconscious is distinguished chiefly by the repression of intuition, which thereby acquires an extraverted and archaic character. Whereas true extraverted intuition has a characteristic resourcefulness, and a 'good nose' for every possibility in objective reality, this archaic, extraverted intuition has an amazing flair for every ambiguous, gloomy, dirty, and dangerous possibility in the background of reality. In the presence of this intuition the real and conscious intention of the object has no significance; it will peer behind every possible archaic antecedent of such an intention. It possesses, therefore, something dangerous, something actually undermining, which often stands in most vivid contrast to the gentle benevolence of consciousness. So long as the individual is not too aloof from the object, the unconscious intuition effects a wholesome compensation to the rather fantastic and over credulous attitude of consciousness. But as soon as the unconscious becomes antagonistic to consciousness, such intuitions come to the surface and expand their nefarious influence: they force themselves compellingly upon the individual, releasing compulsive ideas about objects of the most perverse kind.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

Similar Threads

  1. [Ni] guys which cognitive function is likley to?
    By chado in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-22-2017, 05:24 PM
  2. Which function is the hardest for you to grasp?
    By Hard in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 96
    Last Post: 12-18-2016, 11:30 AM
  3. [JCF] Which function is most inclined to use flow charts?
    By SwimmerGal97 in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-08-2015, 05:09 PM
  4. Which function more likely to land you in the Psych Ward: Ne or Ni?
    By mysavior in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 01-04-2011, 12:56 PM
  5. [MBTItm] Which type annoys you the most, and why?
    By KLessard in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 01-05-2009, 05:38 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO