Fi users (especially FPs) - what do you like about Fe?

[Riva]

Though the themes of the forum since late have mainly been focused on apparent misogyny and misandry on the forum, there is an undeniable hatred towards Fe in here it could be seen.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

yeah, it's nice to be around Fe users when they do things like giving you gifs because they just came back from a vacation in a foreign country, invite you to social dinners when they cooked everything and organised everything to detail, when they take the stage in social or official situations and know how to put the group together and make you feel safe in a way...and also when they have a lot of patience to listen to you (Fe users listen to my emotional blah blah in a different way than Fi users. i can't exactly specify how right now, i'd have to think about it)

 

[gromit]

Yeah why not?

 

[Qlip]

I find it's Fe that pressures the majority to behave. Even if you don't like the community standards, a Perceiver Fi user as myself likes some basis to work off of.

 

[Standuble]

I suppose usually it doesn't cause too much harm. Being waited on is nice as I can focus on my thoughts rather than practical tasks.

It irks me on an Fi level as I hate being pressured into following social convention which at its essence doesn't seem to make much sense to me nor seems to have any real beneficiary (purely a hypothetical person or party who is not only immediately assumed to exist without evidence but also assumed to be offended by a lack of social etiquette.) It very rarely makes my life better outside of making me meals. Plus this whole emulation of ethical values leads me to assume that they don't actually know what ethics or morals are, their uses and how to improve them. On the whole I think it holds the human race back even more than Fi does (in general I think the world would be better off as pure thinking but I digress.)

It also irks my inferior Te as well which seems to hate that it cannot proceed as it sees fit simply because Fe doesn't like it. FWIW if it were more developed it would probably become annoyed with Fi as well.

 

[Amargith]

It often feels oppressive to Fi, unfortunately, though it is incredibly powerful and beautiful when wielded properly.

 

[skylights]

Absolutely. I love Fe. It's nurturing and caring, and self-abnegating in a way that Fi is not. It's warm and welcoming, attentive and patient. It maintains and modulates interpersonal interaction, and optimizes social situations. And yes, it can be frustrating at times.

Mostly I think there are serious misunderstandings about Fe being just a simple mirror of collective values or about it wanting everything to be "prim and proper", though, as it operates so differently than hyper-individualistic, introspection-obsessive Fi.

 

[Cellmold]

Fe just looks like lying and falsehood and it becomes more and more like this in appearance the further away the perceiver is from Fe dominance and the closer the observed is to that same dominance.

Breadth vs depth I suppose. Fe is extensive, it creates generally applied boundries of human social conduct, what for i'm not really sure...there probably is a good reason that this exists I just havn't found or seen evidence for it yet but most likely it has something to do with...organisation? Old tribal mentalities passed along?

Or just making sure that we have characters to hate, both in real life and on dreary day-time drama television shows.

 

[Standuble]

Fe just looks like lying and falsehood and it becomes more and more like this in appearance the further away the perceiver is from Fe dominance and the closer the observed is to that same dominance.

Breadth vs depth I suppose. Fe is extensive, it creates generally applied boundries of human social conduct, what for i'm not really sure...there probably is a good reason that this exists I just havn't found or seen evidence for it yet but most likely it has something to do with...organisation? Old tribal mentalities passed along?

Or just making sure that we have characters to hate, both in real life and on dreary day-time drama television shows.

It would be useful as an evolutionary tool; the emergence of an ingroup would allow some animals to survive where otherwise would not have. With groups watching out for each other (and helping to protect the brood and the mother when her survival tactics are compromised with the need to raise young) they would survive and it would become an advantage mutation. It has in my understanding been a critical tool for groups up until more or less the modern era so it has continuously developed and advanced into the Fe of today.

 

[skylights]

Fe just looks like lying and falsehood and it becomes more and more like this in appearance the further away the perceiver is from Fe dominance and the closer the observed is to that same dominance.

Breadth vs depth I suppose. Fe is extensive, it creates generally applied boundries of human social conduct, what for i'm not really sure...there probably is a good reason that this exists I just havn't found or seen evidence for it yet but most likely it has something to do with...organisation?

Plus I think it has to do with Fe being an Extraverted Judging function, so it acts on whatever information it is has at hand, as opposed to seeking new information (P functions). Fe acts in the external world to optimize the situation by creating structure, and I think that's where the general boundaries come in, so that we sort of have a basis for everyone interacting in a positive way. Fe utilizes external information, so a Fe user takes in whatever others put out into the environment and act accordingly.

All the actions, thoughts, and observations of [Fe dominants] are, however, governed by the effort to establish relationships of feeling with other people. In this, feeling constantly seeks expression, and tries accordingly to arouse corresponding feelings in others, sometimes by means of almost imperceptible manifestations on their own part. The fine shading of their own emotional life enables them, moreover, to read the feelings of others from the smallest indications. [...]

While under the influence of powerful feelings, such people are able to exert great influence in their environment, particularly if they find support for their feelings in followers and onlookers. With most people of this type, however, feelings are expressed less in impressive actions than in the creation of a harmonious atmosphere. In their relationship with those around them they do their best to insist on friendliness and fair play, and they are usually conscientious and orderly even in small matters. Since they make similar demands on others, they frequently come into conflict with others, who do not always see the same necessity.

I would be interested in learning more about the experience of Fe from Fe dominants and auxiliaries, though, because (unsurprisingly) it seems far less discussed by dom/aux than Fi.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

It's funny that people consider Fe to be lying and falsehood, because, in all honesty, I tend to view Fi as being hypocritical and self-absorbed. I'm sure Fi cares a lot about people, but it seems unwilling to accommodate them, and it usually won't even bother to explain why it won't accommodate hem. Instead they'll move the discussion towards something else, or conclude that it's "pointless" to talk about. Like, you want me to go out of my way to accomodate you, but you can't even explain why I should be doing this? That's probably, like, one of the few things I need.

I suppose it's that I'm supposed to have the passion or inner drive to do whatever it is you want without needing to talk about it. I'm not entirely capable of figuring out what people want even when they won't tell me. That being said, if someone tells me something is "fine" I'm going to take them at their word. It's like, the minimum I need, not to be told things are "fine" when they clearly aren't. (And how is that not dishonest?)

It doesn't seem fair that I should put in so much effort, and then when it comes to what I ask them to do, they act as though I'm imposing some unreasonable hardship. If you want me to respond to your moods, and engage with them, and "support" you, I'm going to need you to at least tell me what the hell is going on in your head at least some of the time. What is so unreasonable, unfair, or oppressive about that?

Granted, some of that is Ti, not Fe.

 

[Amargith]

...and the next Fi/Fe shitting thread is off, people.

 

[Cellmold]

Plus I think it has to do with Fe being an Extraverted Judging function, so it acts on whatever information it is has at hand, as opposed to seeking new information (P functions). Fe acts in the external world to optimize the situation by creating structure, and I think that's where the general boundaries come in, so that we sort of have a basis for everyone interacting in a positive way. Fe utilizes external information, so a Fe user takes in whatever others put out into the environment and act accordingly.

It would be useful as an evolutionary tool; the emergence of an ingroup would allow some animals to survive where otherwise would not have. With groups watching out for each other (and helping to protect the brood and the mother when her survival tactics are compromised with the need to raise young) they would survive and it would become an advantage mutation. It has in my understanding been a critical tool for groups up until more or less the modern era so it has continuously developed and advanced into the Fe of today.

Both good points. But something that has always bothered me about how Fe is described is that it is often outlined as a function depending entirely on environment and that without a positive environment it becomes used to bad practice and poor conduct, because that would be the social norm.

I can't imagine, for example, Fe ever coming up with ideas of rebellion or social change, without those ideas first being implanted in the Fe's environment by external sources. The flimsiness of this is quite frightening when you examine it.

 

[Ginkgo]

...and the next Fi/Fe shitting thread is off, people.

Looking in the mirror while pooping.

 

[Standuble]

It's funny that people consider Fe to be lying and falsehood, because, in all honesty, I tend to view Fi as being hypocritical and self-absorbed. I'm sure Fi cares a lot about people, but it seems unwilling to accommodate them, and it usually won't even bother to explain why it won't accommodate hem. Instead they'll move the discussion towards something else, or conclude that it's "pointless" to talk about. Like, you want me to go out of my way to accomodate you, but you can't even explain why I should be doing this? That's probably, like, one of the few things I need.

Granted, some of that is Ti, not Fe.

Hang on there a second my blubbery friend. I shall shit on your post in a way that hopefully allows Ti to analyze the effluence with a degree of grace.

a) First sentence seems to apply to this Fi-disease ridden synapse sadsack that statement two being correct makes statement one incorrect. How is this so? Of what Fe logic is this? Both could surely be true could they not? A way of fixing the first line would be "People may consider Fe to be about lying and falsehood, however, in all honesty, I tend to view Fi as being hypocritical and self-absorbed."

b) Sentence two says one thing: Fi isn't about lying and falsehood. An Fi user won't accommodate them if Fi does not value it. If Fi determines something is pointless to talk about the Fi user will change the subject. If Fi users act like they care about you then they care about you. What you are seeing is an accurate translation of the Fi-user's feelings. There is much to why an Fi user comes to said conclusion or evaluates something at a certain amount but alas it is not something which can be quantified and displayed out on the page. Compare this with Fe which is in this context a mere smokescreen. From what I know about studying my SFJ mother and NTPs online is that there is a huge discrepancy between how you act and what you actually think. Meanwhile the Fi user sees through this smokescreen and asks themselves: "What was the fucking point of this disingenuous performance?"

c) Fi users need less from you than you think. They usually need accommodation from you so they can get through an internal conflict of some description. Once the issue is resolved they won't ask (nor perhaps need) your accommodation.

 

[Standuble]

Both good points. But something that has always bothered me about how Fe is described is that it is often outlined as a function depending entirely on environment and that without a positive environment it becomes used to bad practice and poor conduct, because that would be the social norm.

I can't imagine, for example, Fe ever coming up with ideas of rebellion or social change, without those ideas first being implanted in the Fe's environment by external sources. The flimsiness of this is quite frightening when you examine it.

Is it frightening? What doesn't require external sources in some shape or form? Fi owes everything to the extroverted perceiving function, without Se/Ne it would never be able to evaluate new data and be gradually shaped and refined into something new. Besides the Fe user has Ti to create a logical model which criticises the existing organisations and logical models of the world. The Fe user can take up arms because Fe isn't the only function they use.

 

[Cellmold]

Is it frightening? What doesn't require external sources in some shape or form? Fi owes everything to the extroverted perceiving function, without Se/Ne it would never be able to evaluate new data and be gradually shaped and refined into something new. Besides the Fe user has Ti to create a logical model which criticises the existing organisations and logical models of the world. The Fe user can take up arms because Fe isn't the only function they use.

Yes, no function is ever alone, but for a strong Fe user to forgo their environmental values and use something as alien to them as Ti..must take a pretty fucked up Fe user.

If anything they are less likely to beat against the status quo, precisely because of that environmental reliance. Of course all functions require external sources to cogitate, but it is how those sources are filtered and understood that is important.

An Fe user might take up arms, but they are less likely to than other types and I find that dangerous, especially when it is needed.

Fi might require the external perceptions of Ne/Se but it always judges those assumptions through a personal filter. Fe on the other hand, whether with Ni or Si, is always relying on a standard already set, since their perception always filters information down to what their judgement most adheres to already.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

That being said, if someone tells me something is "fine" I'm going to take them at their word. It's like, the minimum I need, not to be told things are "fine" when they clearly aren't. (And how is that not dishonest?)

I dont understand this about Fe users. Can't you read facial expressions? If someone tells you they're fine but they have a *strange* look on their face or their body language doesn't match their words, can't you see it?

 

[garbage]

Finally, we've arrived at my pet issue.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I dont understand this about Fe users. Can't you read facial expressions? If someone tells you they're fine but they have a *strange* look on their face or their body language doesn't match their words, can't you see it?

Yes, but how exactly can I help you if you can't tell me what's going on? Being able to tell that something's wrong, and knowing what that is are two different things. Facial expressions don't help with the latter unless you're acutely aware of the context. I think Fi users think I'm supposed to know what that is without them telling me for my help to "mean" anything. Am I off here?

Am I just supposed to try things that might help without knowing whether they will help or just make things worse? That's taxing. So why can't you make the small effort to step back a moment and find some words to express yourself? If I'm going to go to all this effort to make you feel better, you might help me just a little with what I need. I don't like feeling shit on when I'm trying really hard, so can we find a way around that?