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  1. #71
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    Nice job trolling the forum, @Riva.

    But, yes, of course there are reasons to like Fe.

    As there are also plenty of reasons to not like it.

    Same goes for Fi, Ti, Te, Ne, Si, Ni, and Se.

    Not to mention Men, Women, Whites, Asians, Blacks, Latinos, Native Americans, Rich People, Poor People, Humans, Animals, Plants, Beings, etc.

  2. #72
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    out of context: what would be the problem with Ti from a Te user point of view?
    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Look, Fe is going to occasionally get in Fi's way and irritate it, much like Fi will irritate Fe in its unique vision thingy

    Personally, I have more of a beef with Ti than Fe, but I admire both and can be quite in awe when they are being used in all their glory.

    But yeah, occasionally they frustrate the shit out of me when they get in my business for what I consider no reason, I won't deny that.

    That is true for all functions though, not just Fe. There is no reason to hate Fe more, imho.

  3. #73
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    ETA: (Sorry for the edits) Is Se disgusting or non-genuine because it relies on external information? Te? Ne? Perhaps the behaviors expressed by those functions can be, but the function itself isn't. But, again, those behaviors are also formed by the other functions and the environment surrounding the person, so how can we deride any one function or any one user of that function, sight unseen?
    Easily, people do it all the time and it is the main usage of this theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    That sounds disgusting. Happen to have a link to this definition?
    http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/Co...ed-Feeling.cfm

    http://www.personalitypage.com/ESFJ.html

    he ESFJ's value system is defined externally. They usually have very well-formed ideas about the way things should be, and are not shy about expressing these opinions. However, they weigh their values and morals against the world around them, rather than against an internal value system. They may have a strong moral code, but it is defined by the community that they live in, rather than by any strongly felt internal values.

    ESFJs who have had the benefit of being raised and surrounded by a strong value system that is ethical and centered around genuine goodness will most likely be the kindest, most generous souls who will gladly give you the shirt off of their back without a second thought. For these individuals, the selfless quality of their personality type is genuine and pure. ESFJs who have not had the advantage of developing their own values by weighing them against a good external value system may develop very questionable values. In such cases, the ESFJ most often genuinely believes in the integrity of their skewed value system. They have no internal understanding of values to set them straight. In weighing their values against our society, they find plenty of support for whatever moral transgression they wish to justify. This type of ESFJ is a dangerous person indeed. Extraverted Feeling drives them to control and manipulate, and their lack of Intuition prevents them from seeing the big picture. They're usually quite popular and good with people, and good at manipulating them. Unlike their ENFJ cousin, they don't have Intuition to help them understand the real consequences of their actions. They are driven to manipulate other to achieve their own ends, yet they believe that they are following a solid moral code of conduct.
    http://www.personalitypage.com/ENFJ.html

    An ENFJ who has not developed their Feeling side may have difficulty making good decisions, and may rely heavily on other people in decision-making processes. If they have not developed their Intuition, they may not be able to see possibilities, and will judge things too quickly based on established value systems or social rules, without really understanding the current situation. An ENFJ who has not found their place in the world is likely to be extremely sensitive to criticism, and to have the tendency to worry excessively and feel guilty. They are also likely to be very manipulative and controling with others.
    http://www.psychological-types.com/TB/E/dev/EF.pdf

    http://personalitycafe.com/esfj-arti...-dominant.html

    n precisely the same way as extraverted thinking strives to rid itself of subjective influences, extraverted feeling has also to undergo a certain process of differentiation, before it is finally denuded of every subjective [p. 447] trimming. The valuations resulting from the act of feeling either correspond directly with objective values or at least chime in with certain traditional and generally known standards of value. This kind of feeling is very largely responsible for the fact that so many people flock to the theatre, to concerts, or to Church, and what is more, with correctly adjusted positive feelings. Fashions, too, owe their existence to it, and, what is far more valuable, the whole positive and wide-spread support of social, philanthropic, and such like cultural enterprises. In such matters, extraverted feeling proves itself a creative factor. Without this feeling, for instance, a beautiful and harmonious sociability would be unthinkable. So far extraverted feeling is just as beneficent and rationally effective as extraverted thinking. But this salutary effect is lost as soon as the object gains an exaggerated influence. For, when this happens, extraverted feeling draws the personality too much into the object, i.e. the object assimilates the person, whereupon the personal character of the feeling, which constitutes its principal charm, is lost. Feeling then becomes cold, material, untrustworthy. It betrays a secret aim, or at least arouses the suspicion of it in an impartial observer. No longer does it make that welcome and refreshing impression the invariable accompaniment of genuine feeling; instead, one scents a pose or affectation, although the egocentric motive may be entirely unconscious.
    There are plenty more in books. And that last link is a direct quote from Jung's work.

    Also: http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #74
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    I'll just give my abrasive yet honest perspective to rebut any Fe hate.

    Analogically speaking, I get frustrated with Te because from my perspective its user's are aggressive, oppressive, and don't even listen to what I have to say as a Ti. With that being said, I wonder if Fe and Fi doms get frustrated with one another because they don't listen to each other.

    Considering the enormous number of INFP's on this website my first conjecture would be that the amount of Fe hate is based on the number of FP's on the site who have an issue with being "put into a box."

    Likewise, from my perspective (an Fe user) I have little sympathy for Fi dominants because, Fe users can feel whatever they want to feel, but usually have the common courtesy to keep it to themselves. From our perspective, we're allowed to feel whatever we want to. That's our right. However Fi dominants usually pick up on internal value judgements of others and thus take offense from these silent judgements and, from our point of view, proactively go out of their way to be offended.

    For example, everyone is having fun at a party, and an Fi user gets in a fight, thus ruining the fun atmosphere. I'd rather be listening to the music and dissolving my soul into dreamland euphoria instead of listening to how someone is pissed at someone else. Put aside your differences for a few minutes and have some fun for a change. In a sense, it almost feels as if the party is all about the Fi person and no longer about the party itself. Completely self centered and uncaring of anyone else's feelings. Its abrasive.

    All around me there are people who feel negative things about me, and I can sense these things. However, I appreciate that they don't act on these judgements and keep it to themselves. If it become a problems I'll usually do what I can do fix the situation.

    Fe dominants are usually trying to do whatever they can to maintain a peaceful atmosphere and keep things friendly. This however, can backfire when the Fe users are too chicken to approach the other person and settle any beef.

    As a Ti dom, I'm the unfortunate hybrid of confrontational and harmony seeking in this situation, where I ask questions and try to settle our differences in a direct and curt fashion and get to the root of the problem. I also know plenty of Ti doms who have absolutely no concern for group harmony and make complete asses of themselves in public, (ie: me in high school).

  5. #75
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    @AffirmitiveAnxiety

    Niiiice! Thank you for taking the time to find all of those. I'll read them now.
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  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Yeah, seems like people don't like being called either selfishly manipulative or sheeple and controlling.

    Who knew?
    Haha yes. It's a great compliment.
    Basically Fe is about being an amoral conformist sheep who can't think independently of the collective group's values (the SFJs have it the worst though... it's pretty much implied in the personalitypages profile that the ESFJ is molded ultimately by whatever morals he grew up around. At least the ENFJ has Ni to make them more independent...ick) and are selfless helpful beings.

    The FPs (especially NFPs) are basically highly moral and ethical beings with a stubborn selfishness.

    Those are the gist of the horribly wonderful stereotypes.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    Those are the gist of the horribly wonderful stereotypes.
    Pretty much, except most don't accept them as stereotypes.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #78
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    Haha yes. It's a great compliment.
    Basically Fe is about being an amoral conformist sheep who can't think independently of the collective group's values (the SFJs have it the worst though... it's pretty much implied in the personalitypages profile that the ESFJ is molded ultimately by whatever morals he grew up around. At least the ENFJ has Ni to make them more independent...ick) and are selfless helpful beings.

    The FPs (especially NFPs) are basically highly moral and ethical beings with a stubborn selfishness.

    Those are the gist of the horribly wonderful stereotypes.


    I love when a person (or couple) in a relationship of Fe + Fi shows up and talks about how they not only managed to not hate the other, but fell in love, and are happily together. Because they bonded over N or S or even N + S! Or any other combo. What are they, freaks? No, they're the ones who noticed the other was more than just one function and are too busy making love sweet sweaty love right now to come on and type gibber-gabber.

    I like people who have Fe and hate some too, same with Fi. People are a mixture of their functions and MANY other things. It's why they can be so hard to type sometimes to begin with. Even when typing ourselves.
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  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Pretty much, except most don't accept them as stereotypes.
    I think people sometimes get so caught up in the categorization of others that they forget about individual variance and that all of us have a choice on what we think and what our values are going to be. From what I have seen, Fe doms do tend to put more value in societal standards but they pick those standards that tend to reflect their own value system and emphasize those. If I don't give a shit, I won't bother. That's why some other Fe doms annoy the crap out of me while some don't. Same with Fi-users.

  10. #80
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    I think people sometimes get so caught up in the categorization of others that they forget about individual variance and that all of us have a choice on what we think and what our values are going to be. From what I have seen, Fe doms do tend to put more value in societal standards but they pick those standards that tend to reflect their own value system and emphasize those. If I don't give a shit, I won't bother. That's why some other Fe doms annoy the crap out of me while some don't. Same with Fi-users.
    The shamelessly random nature of it all is the hard work aspect of course. After all we have to hope there can be at least some effort to change....otherwise why would anyone make the effort?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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