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  1. #21
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    I dont understand this about Fe users. Can't you read facial expressions? If someone tells you they're fine but they have a *strange* look on their face or their body language doesn't match their words, can't you see it?
    What reason would one have to place a priority on one expression of emotion over the other? It's a mixed message better off expediently ignored if the person with a strange look on their face is just going to be dishonest. If they haven't come to terms with their own emotions, then there will never be any mutual understanding; if there's no mutual understanding, then someone's going to wind up trying to tip-toe around eggshells.

  2. #22
    Glycerine
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    You guys think way too much on the Fe/Fi crap. A lot of it becomes pretty pointless after awhile.

  3. #23
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    You guys think way too much on the Fe/Fi crap. A lot of it becomes pretty pointless after awhile.
    Like most of the theory.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #24
    Glycerine
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    Of course... haha.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I would be interested in learning more about the experience of Fe from Fe dominants and auxiliaries, though, because (unsurprisingly) it seems far less discussed by dom/aux than Fi.
    wholeheartedly agree. I was actually going to start a thread on this, because I don't know that I've ever heard about Fe from an Fe dom/aux's point of view.

    I would think that describing Fe as unreflective "people-pleasing" would be frowned on in this forum? While I know the FJs in my life struggle to balance "needing to be socially correct & personally authentic," I wouldn't say that the majority of their actions are predicated by knee-jerk conformism. I mean, I know many conformist FJs, but it's obviously not as if Fe-users can't be independent thinkers. Especially if they were raised in an environment that encouraged it.

    (I'm still not sure whether I'm an INFP or INFJ, but if there's any truth to this thread's general response, I'm going back to INFP )

  6. #26
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Excuse me so you're telling me that you see it, but you choose to ignore the suffering of the person in front of you. See, I had this exact doubt about Fe users: ie. 1) do Fe users not see it because they're emotionally dumb or 2) do they choose to ignore it because they're crude and cynical.

    Someone might not tell you that there's something wrong with them for many reasons, for instance:
    1) they dont want to waste your time or feel their issue is minimal compared to disturbing you;
    2) they may be embarrassed to talk about it, or it may require them some time to open up

    If 1, then your mission is to make them feel like they aren't a useless piece of shit. If 2, then your mission is to make them open up slowly, as they probably need it. You're not supposed to magically guess what's wrong with them, only to use your sense of compassion to connect to another human being.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Yes, but how exactly can I help you if you can't tell me what's going on? Being able to tell that something's wrong, and knowing what that is are two different things. Facial expressions don't help with the latter unless you're acutely aware of the context. I think Fi users think I'm supposed to know what that is without them telling me for my help to "mean" anything. Am I off here?

    Am I just supposed to try things that might help without knowing whether they will help or just make things worse? That's taxing. So why can't you make the small effort to step back a moment and find some words to express yourself? If I'm going to go to all this effort to make you feel better, you might help me just a little .

  7. #27
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    You guys think way too much on the Fe/Fi crap. A lot of it becomes pretty pointless after awhile.
    You just want people to conform to your standards! You evil Fe-dom!
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  8. #28
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    You guys think way too much on the Fe/Fi crap. A lot of it becomes pretty pointless after awhile.
    I'd really like to know why Te vs. Ti threads tend to not stimulate the same level of controversy. There's no reason they shouldn't unless feelings themselves are bound to be emotionally invested in by the forum at large.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Yes, no function is ever alone, but for a strong Fe user to forgo their environmental values and use something as alien to them as Ti..must take a pretty fucked up Fe user.

    If anything they are less likely to beat against the status quo, precisely because of that environmental reliance. Of course all functions require external sources to cogitate, but it is how those sources are filtered and understood that is important.

    An Fe user might take up arms, but they are less likely to than other types and I find that dangerous, especially when it is needed.

    Fi might require the external perceptions of Ne/Se but it always judges those assumptions through a personal filter. Fe on the other hand, whether with Ni or Si, is always relying on a standard already set, since their perception always filters information down to what their judgement most adheres to already.
    Note that when I said "Fe user" previously I was referring to any type which had Fe in its primary stacking, including ITPs. Plus an FJ who uses Ti isn't necessarily fucked up but often a more balanced one e.g. an older one. By superimposing a more reliable Ti-model on their Fe network they would stop and wonder what works and what does not and make adjustments accordingly.

    A question: Why is an Fe user less likely to pursue change than other types? Other functions have their own vices which could impede someone from doing "the right thing":

    Ti/Fi-dom= May think it is wrong but make no tangible or organised effort to right this wrong. Will rely on advising others and hope their small sparks light a fire.
    Ni-dom = May think it is wrong but make no effort to change it because in the grand scheme of things it means nothing and/or they predict failure if they try.
    Si-dom = May think it is wrong but decide to not do anything because they would rather focus on romanticised impressions of the past rather than try and shape the future.
    Ne-dom = May think it is wrong but do not act because they see too many possibilities and wonder if making changes will lead to negative outcomes.
    Se-dom = May think it is wrong but care more about the immediately concrete than something which can be perceived as abstract.
    Te-dom = May think it is wrong but do nothing because even if immoral the current system logically works.

    Change could be needed but you probably can't rely on someone purely on the basis of type. Fe may not see something is ethically wrong on its own but the other functions make up for this disadvantage in their own ways.

  10. #30
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    You just want people to conform to your standards! You evil Fe-dom!
    Damn right. I am an amoral society-bound drone. Everyone needs to follow my lead or else....

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