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  1. #111
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    (the immature ones tend to spoil the mood)
    C#2-C#5-F#5
    3 octaves, 2 notes and 1 semitone
    Supported range: F#2-F#4-C#5

  2. #112
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I think someone - OA maybe? - brought up that there is some overlap/confusion between Fe and the Social instinct variant. I think it's an excellent point, because they can come off similarly even though they orient differently. As far as I understand, So is a mechanism that identifies collective contexts, determines individual place in those contexts, and assists in optimizing one's position. This includes "in" and "out", as well as the million shades of gray in between, and "normal" and "abnormal". Then we have Fe, which is a thinking process of seeking to establish external order by creating value-based priorities and goals. Because Fe prioritizes in terms of external order, it is likely to be able to "feel" the in/out and accepted/unaccepted that are part of external social structure, though the lower-So Fe user probably doesn't place much importance on their personal place within groups beyond appropriate contribution (for example, my Sp-first ESFJ mom, who is very attentive to whether everyone is enjoying themselves and how to reorganize people for a more pleasant experience, but doesn't care much about her own position in the group), while the Fi dom/aux So-first may place much importance on their position in the collective, but not feel the need to influence external structure beyond their personal mobilization (for example, my INFP So-first hipster friend who self-defines in large part by choosing which music groups, coffeehouses, art movements, and social collectives she identifies with and which ones she does not, but is not interested in influencing others' individual behavior).
    +1

    You nailed it.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Though the themes of the forum since late have mainly been focused on apparent misogyny and misandry on the forum, there is an undeniable hatred towards Fe in here it could be seen.
    To me, Fe-doms are smart jugglers of emotional factors.

    Fe is a model-making function (= a judging function). So let’s say you have an ENFJ manager (Fe-dom), and you give him a brand-new team of people to lead. He takes their emotional temperature, quickly calculates a number of models geared at getting the team up and functioning smoothly, and implements those models as needed.

    There are lots of places and roles in the world where you want that facility. People are everywhere; an Fe-dom will show you how to maneuver among people with minimal friction in the same way that a Te-dom will help you jury-rig a good computer arrangement for a given task (or whatever). In terms of practicality, productivity, and usefulness, Fe wins hands-down over Fi.

    I skimmed this thread, and much of the negative criticism about Fe seemed to hinge on the perception that Fe is somehow nothing more than a reflection of the world around it. But in fact Fe is a highly agile, very potent function for taking the temperature of a team/group/environment, factoring in numerous conflicting points of data, and coming up with a model for dealing with that room or group or environment.

    The downside of Fe-users is that the model they create for a given situation is usually attuned to the group as a whole. If dissenters crop up, Fe-users may pressure dissenters to go with the group flow.

    But that doesn’t take anything away from the brilliance of the function at its most basic level, i.e., quick model-making in order to read and then influence the environment around the Fe-user. And with age and maturity, the Fe-user even learns to handle dissenters, either by incorporating the dissent into the model and/or designing models that can handle dissent.

  4. #114
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I think someone - OA maybe? - brought up that there is some overlap/confusion between Fe and the Social instinct variant. I think it's an excellent point, because they can come off similarly even though they orient differently.
    It was me.

    Being a social dominant is counter to my enneagram type and I suspect to being Fi dominant too. All I know is that it's likely why I push against the stereotype descriptions of both functions.

    Thanks for your expansion there.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #115
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    It was me.

    Being a social dominant is counter to my enneagram type and I suspect to being Fi dominant too. All I know is that it's likely why I push against the stereotype descriptions of both functions.

    Thanks for your expansion there.
    Ah, sorry for mis-remembering! :3 And, absolutely. Instinct variant has become my recent pet topic

    Out of curiosity, do you think you understand Fe users any better than the average Fi user because of the social instinct?

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine
    an Fe-dom will show you how to maneuver among people with minimal friction in the same way that a Te-dom will help you jury-rig a good computer arrangement for a given task (or whatever). In terms of practicality, productivity, and usefulness, Fe wins hands-down over Fi [...] And with age and maturity, the Fe-user even learns to handle dissenters, either by incorporating the dissent into the model and/or designing models that can handle dissent.
    Very nicely put.

  6. #116
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Very interesting point about the social instinct vs Fe. This might explain my confusion with identifying with Fe when I first learned about it, because I hate social norms. I hate all the niceties that people do and I feel some 'Fe' people can be well-meaning but very intrusive.

    But, upon closer inspection, I am very Fe. In my relationships, I really expect people to 'put it out on the table' via 'emotional cues' what they really want, so we can work together. Fe is like a language. I find it easier to communicate when people speak the same language as I do. And the alarming thing was that I didn't know there were people who did not speak this language. I grew up among Fe people, so I thought it was a natural mode of 'communication'.

    When I got into a relationship with my INFP, I had to radically adjust my worldview. The way he operates was totally incomprehensible to me. So we worked on it. Once you understand where the difference is and stop thinking that other functions are inferior, you can then see the beauty of the difference.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  7. #117
    garbage
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    I thought this thread was about what people liked about Fe. Now my feelings are all hurt and stuff, because, Fe.

    Also, if anyone has any pointed questions about what goes on in our brains, fire away. I'd love to clarify any misconceptions or validate actual concerns.

    (First off, social norms are what they are; doesn't mean that they need to be adhered to. e.g. my also Fe-dom fiancée is a different color/culture than me, we're getting married by a gay guy in someplace that isn't a church, we're eloping beforehand. We also invited whomever we wanted to invite, disregarding social pressure. Our families are kinda pissed off at us for being so nontraditional, and we don't particularly care.)
    Last edited by garbage; 05-26-2013 at 09:32 AM.

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