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  1. #21
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    this post really confused me. all that you said makes me think of Ne... maybe I'm not an ENFP after all but an ISTJ WTF!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I'm going to give this a try, but may accidentally venture into how the Ne-Si cycle feeds into one another, as I can have trouble separating them. This is the way it works for me, anyway:

    One of the ways I feel it's presence is through knowledge and understanding of the world. It's not just a bunch of useful facts, it's a convergence of many layers of information and meaning onto each of those facts. Si tells me the world is full of signs and once you collect/absorb/retain them, even unconsciously, you have an endless reference text to consult. Nothing can really be strange, elusive or devoid of meaningful information. You just have to read the signs; let them speak to you, and it's familiar again.

    To use an example, I went to a pub quiz (which I regularly go to), last night. In the music section you had to guess the singer based on a picture (with the face covered) and an audio interview with the artist. The answer wasn't immediately apparent but it was just a matter of mining the information we had.

    The voice I didn't especially recognise but it sounded like youngish guy. In the photo you could see a little skin, enough to tell he's probably white (or relatively light in skin tone). You could also tell from the quality of the image that it was taken in relatively recent years. All of which is pretty generic information.

    But the photo looked like this...
    Attachment 9456

    ...which immediately made me think of this...



    It brought to mind images and impressions of Sinatra, big band music, jazz crooners, fedora hats, the mid 20th century fashion, and a whole list of other bits of information - a sort of Ne free association of Si stored up facts. Putting all these things together starts to form a picture of the person in question.

    This line of thinking turned out to spot on, as answer was Michael Buble.

    When I mentioned the jacket and tie to my team afterwards, they thought it was bizarre that I would even notice them, let alone make that connection; and I suppose it was. I'm not a particular Sinatra or Big Band fan (although I do enjoy some), and I know next to nothing about fashion history, but some time or another I unconsciously stored up that picture and all the little things associated with it - and all that was enough.

    Later, I thought it about this in relation to Si. I really love those little things stored away in my head without me even knowing it. I really love being able to draw on them to help make sense of what is happening now. It like the comfort of knowing I have all the clues I need to solve the puzzles of life, I just have to work out how to put them together correctly. Of course, there is always more to be learned; more information to collect - and the more I do, the overall picture becomes clearer and clearer.

    I find that really cool, even if most people would think it lame and nerdy.

  2. #22
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabula View Post
    I get "feelings" a lot, which are sort of cool, I guess. Whenever I go on vacation, it takes me a long time to "feel" like I'm at home. The feel of homeness is physical to me. I don't know how the hell to explain it. But I carry around this foriegn feeling in my gut which takes awhile to go away.
    I know this feeling. Cool

  3. #23
    Senior Member Tabula's Avatar
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    Ohhhh, I thought of some more. I'm not entirely sure they're all directly Si, but I feel like they'd need to be, at least somewhat, if I'm an Si-dom, wouldn't they?

    Also, I'm in a


    kind of mood. I hope that's okay.


    Perhaps it's along the same lines as the smirking tiki face<-->song association thing I mentioned before, but I had this weird talent growing up that become something I was "known" for (however much one can be "known" in elementary and middle school. Hehe) At the end of the school year when we'd all be assigned our teachers for the following year, I would always know which teacher everyone was assigned to without being told, because, to me, their face "matched" the teacher's name. I don't know how or why that worked, but my success rate was too damned good for it to be straight up luck. I don't know what to make of that.

    I'm really, really good at mimicking accents--in English, and when speaking other languages, and sounds. I have great recall for sound, which I think is part of what makes me musical. (am I fucking my shit up and this is actually Se and not Si? I don't know. I guess I could maybe see Si-Ne.).

    I hesitate to mention this last one for two reasons: 1. I'm not sure if it exists 2. I don't really have it, but it feels that good to me sometimes. Photographic memory, I mean. (I swear my spelling of "foriegn" in this thread was just a typo! ). I'm a fantastic speller. My way of "studying" for tests in school was looking at a page in the textbook, half-reading it; I could almost always remember it verbatim come test-time, as well as remember the page number, and where certain sentences were located on a specific page. Granted, this only worked for some subjects. Maybe it's not a good thing, I guess, but I still think it's kind of cool. All my little "talents" and "skills" and whatever fall more under the category of "parlor trick" than anything really good, significant, or useful. Oh well.

  4. #24
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    this post really confused me. all that you said makes me think of Ne... maybe I'm not an ENFP after all but an ISTJ WTF!?
    It's a connection to Si through Ne - Ne access to layers of Si information. And for me it was more interesting that I had these things stored away in my head (Si), than it was that I registered the connection (Ne). The connection itself was commonplace (it's perfectly clear cut if you see them along side one another) but noticing the jacket in the first place and recalling it's meaning and significance (ie. that Sinatra wore that sort of thing) was more fascinating to me. It's like what I said about how interesting it is to think you have all the clues to solve the puzzle, perhaps without even knowing it.

    I would doubt that it would be possible for a NP to speak with any feeling about Si without filtering their experience of it through Ne. The reverse is probably true for SJs and Ne. I think maybe it's easier to separate out the judging functions because at least you're forming an opinion with them - with the perceiving functions, the only way to make sense of things or conclude anything about what you're seeing) is to refer it back to the opposing function. I don't know, maybe it's just because I'm a Judging dom that I have trouble. Or maybe I'm just talking shit here...
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    this post really confused me. all that you said makes me think of Ne... maybe I'm not an ENFP after all but an ISTJ WTF!?
    There are some commonalities between Si and Ne. Some of the theories claim they work in tandem, shifting back and forth as needed... with one being preferred over the other.

    Si is about nostalgic impressions representing objects. Anything Si encounters, people or things or whatever, is represented by an impression in the user's mind which is formed largely from existing experience of similar things. At unhealthy levels, there's effectively no object at all, just that impression, which makes the user really hard to get along with because they only see things the way they expect them to be, not the way they are. At higher levels, it knowingly merges the impression with the object with a great deal of flexibility, adapting the impression to the object instead of the other way around.

    Ne is about flights of fancy representing objects. Anything Ne encounters is surrounded with ideas about what it might actually be (not what it might become). Like Si, it can be kind of silly in its unwillingness to "be real," but I see it as a bit more present and engaged with the object itself. Ne at unhealthy levels takes the flights of fancy to an extreme, becomes bored very easily, and will skip from one thing to the next at great speed in search of novelty. At higher levels, there's a kind of wonder for what really is that can be really amazing and infectious.

    Taking these into account, I could make the argument that the "unhealthy" parts of Si are what an Ne dom may look like when under heavy stress and vice versa.

    I'd like to hear @OrangeAppled's take on this, partly because Ne is not easy for me to lay out there.

  6. #26
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    @Stephen @Southern Kross @Tabula this last sequence of posts has really opened my mind especially @Tabula who made me realise that if i'm really good with audio and visual memory then that's Si.
    but if Ne/Si and Fi/Te are forcefully interconnected and dependent on each other, then we can progress on function theory thinking to hypothesize that a person may not have 4 cognitive processes, but merely 2, which have dual polarity. So, i'd have Ne/Si, heavily polarized towards Ne (since its my 1st function) and Fi/Te, polarized (but not as much as Ne/Si) towards Fi (since Fi/Te are my 2nd and 3rd functions).
    This really helps me understand Si and understand how i react in a crisis. I thought Si was a foreign function to which i had trouble accessing. If I see it in its Ne-dependent context, they i can better understand how a shift in Ne/Si polarity for me is connected with stress (and vice-versa), as well as understand how to get out of it.

  7. #27
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Si isn't cool. At least not when it is dominant.

    Si is that silent kid that sits in the back and appears mysterious for all of 3 seconds, until he/she opens his/her mouth and comes out with a string of snore-fest descriptions of things they have seen and facts they have heard...all in excruciating detail.

    "I did this and went here and he said this and she responded this and then we went there and did this thing and the thingwasgoodandthenwewentsomewhereelseanddidsometh ingwithsomepeopleandblahblahsnoresnore....death"
    And then they predict the next thing you will say simply because you are currently mirroring one of those excruciating details.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
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  8. #28
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    And then they predict the next thing you will say simply because you are currently mirroring one of those excruciating details.
    Well in truth I wasn't being serious , rocking the boat and all that.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  9. #29
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    @OrangeAppled, this is hilarious to me that you created this thread because I was just thinking about this the other day, my sort of love affair with Si. I was wondering if my Si is stronger due to my self pres instinct. This love of Si is part of why I realized that I've just got to be a self pres dom, actually.

    Si to me-

    I freaking love old things. I love my typewriter- it is so damn sexy, so much sexier than any computer could be. I love my vinyl records and the warmth of their sound. I love old houses with their creaky wood floors and I love big old trees and I love falling apart, decaying old barns and I love old books and I love old stories- it's pretty rare for me to read anything that was written later than 1965. I especially love writers like Dostoevsky and Tolstoy and Melville- the giants of literature. I love to imagine living in the past. I love to imagine what things must have looked like on the prairies of the US before the dumb ass Europeans came and ruined everything. I love wearing old clothes- clothes that are falling apart due to my wear but also clothes that are from another time. I'm establishing quite the collection of vintage scarves.

    I love to mentally walk through my old house where I grew up. I can go through it room by room and picture it in my head, just as it was twenty years ago. I can feel the light hitting my face as it comes through the windows. I can hear the cicadas, I can hear my brothers and sisters. I can feel the wood under my feet. I can wander into my woods and lie under a tree, smell the damp earth. This ability to step back in time mentally is quite useful when it comes to writing fiction. I can dip into my past with Si and create something sensually vivid but use Ne to change characters, circumstances, and create something entirely fresh and different.


    I am a traditionalist when it comes to a lot of aesthetic things in that I romanticize the craftsmanship of the past. But I am not a traditionalist when it comes to values or my worldview. I like the idea of new possibilities, I would never want to cling to the past. Si for me is about indulgence and material pleasure, not glorifying the past or wanting to do the same thing forever just because that's how it's always been done.


    I tend to get along quite well with ISTJs, actually. I think we compliment each other and get each other in a lot of ways.


    (And as far as Van Gogh goes- a person I have been in love with for a long time- I always related to how he said he couldn't draw without looking at something, but then how when he was looking at the thing or person- he never draws it realistically- it's his personal impression. Very Fi + Si with Ne to fill in the gaps.)

  10. #30
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    in life, my baby Si is that thing that lands me some basic common sense. it can be romantic, in relationships i have like little SFJ moments where i act a lot on the tidbits i remember about her. but most of all, its the force that thing that force that makes me so bloody tenacious at certain aspects of life, for better or worst.

    FYI - good thread.

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