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  1. #11
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    True enough: There appears to be ample evidence supporting that E/I is to some extend biologically determined.

    BUT scientific E/I is not the same as MBTI-wise E/I.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member IEE623's Avatar
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    I don't think E or I themselves play an important part on personality types.
    The 2 main functions are what matter. If your dominant function is extraverted, then you're an E, and vice versa.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolyn Beine View Post
    Okay, please don't flip out if there have been five billion threads on this topic, as I can imagine there have been. However, I was always curious if types are constant.

    Personally, I think it is a combination of nature and nurture.

    Over my lifetime, I think I have really changed a lot. As I developed, I think my type developed as well.

    What do you think???
    Agree with your assessment thus yes type is constant, however cognitive functions are fluid therefore can be used in degree for any given situation. Which is why going back to the cognitive function tests that are sometimes suggested, they only provide you with an indication of which is being used predominantly at the time of testing.

  4. #14
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Well, I think who we are out our core remains the same. But as we grow and mature, we'll build onto that, and 'evolve'. Whereas the internal process/decision point, and even general behaviors when young might have been a more kneejerk reaction/instinctual response, as one ages more levels of analyses or factors to be considered will be built upon the initial response, so that the net outcome when older might be quite different from when younger.

    But only we ourselves can really know what goes on in making that decision, or taking a certain action -- outside observers wouldn't see that. From the outside perspective, I almost think it would appear as though types CAN change -- since observable behaviors are what we tend to go off of anyway, when we're trying to type people.

    I don't know. I fully understand, and agree with, the concept that ones core remains ones core for a lifetime.

    I do however have difficulty with the 'usefulness' and supposed truth that ones' MBTI type is fixed for life. If someone when they're 60 is for all intents and purposes behaving as if they are an ENTJ, even if while young they behaved and acted mostly like an INTJ (or ENFP, or whatever), what is the point of continuing to type them as INTJ, or for that person to continue viewing himself as INTJ when he has consciously moved on from it? This is where I have a problem with mbti.

    The only thing I am certain has remained a constant in my life is my I-ness. But to be truthful, at times I really question whether I was an INxx child, because I don't remember being all that imaginative or day-dreamy as a child. I remember being observant, and always introspecting about things, but that's about it.
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  5. #15
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    True enough: There appears to be ample evidence supporting that E/I is to some extend biologically determined.

    BUT scientific E/I is not the same as MBTI-wise E/I.
    For this reason Jungian terminology must be re-defined to better fit the phenomena it aspires to describe. MBTI could be discarded altogether. Jung was merely onto something, it is up to us to rectify and further his inquiry into the subject.
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  6. #16
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    First of all, scientists say the human brain does not reach full capacity until its mid-twenties so this would suggest personality would not be formed until somebodies mid-twenties either.

    Also, I am not convince ones personality is totally 'static' if even after ones mid-twenties. I think extrinsic events change people.

    Image an ESFP was in a car accident and was disfigured; do you really think it would be really surprising if their personality changed completely?

    I am pretty sure most people who go in the armed forces, for better or worse, don't come out the same people. Would it really be surprising if someone who first signed up was a P turned into a hard-core J? Would it really be that unusual for someone having been in a war to get head completely mess up and completely change their personality?
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  7. #17
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    I think you are always a certain type, but certain outside factors can influence the expression of the type. Mental illness is certainly a huge factor - anxiety tends to make a person more introverted & depression seems to have the same effect. Mania tends to make someone appear more extraverted.

    Also, the influence of another introvert or extravert can push someone to falsely believe they are introverted or extraverted. I have an extremely introverted boyfriend who in a way forces me to be the extraverted one of the relationship. My mother is a VERY extraverted ESTP, who has definitely taught me the tools of being able to flourish in a social atmosphere. Between these two influences heavy in my life right now & the return to therapy in an attempt to conquer an anxiety disorder, I've noticed a shift from INFJ to ENFJ... though I am unsure which is my natural preference.

    Obviously stress has an influence... my boyfriend has been going through a really tough time & I can see the "F" in his personality switch to a "T". His J & P tend to flip flop as well when he's under unbearable stress.

  8. #18
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    I think not.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Ishida's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm open to the possibility. But I will agree it is no easy feat.
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  10. #20
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Psychological theory is a best guess. At best. Now, I like the MBTI and it is my personal opinion that it is one hell of a good guess, but it is nowhere near being an absolute truth. If there were to be an absolute truth, the letter-code for a personality type might be a million letters and/or digits. And then it would hardly be useful anymore. MBTI is a great sketchy rough outline of people as they tend to be. Love it.

    To the point, though, I believe that type is not constant. People talk a lot about "shadow type" and such. Except that I do believe that people can change. Especially after they've been through something of a personal hell. I changed a lot during a period of five or six years. Can't say i'm anything like I was before that physically or mentally. I was a very friendly INTP. I kept to myself a lot as a kid and I had a bunch of abstract interests wich I seldom shared with anyone. Pretty detached from the physical world. Very T... Began evolving my Feeling functions when I was about 17, before that I was almost constantly annoyed with the world lacking in logic and that everyone seemed to be unable to detach themself to see the big picture.
    Circumstances made me more ENTJ/ENTP-like, at least at this point in life. I'm not going into it but there were pretty severe psychological trauma involved, really should have seen a psychologist, but I never did. And I turned out a wee bit crazy, but mostly intact

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