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View Poll Results: Which cognitive function do you associate the most with narcissism?

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  • Se

    3 20.00%
  • Si

    0 0%
  • Ne

    3 20.00%
  • Ni

    1 6.67%
  • Te

    1 6.67%
  • Ti

    3 20.00%
  • Fe

    2 13.33%
  • Fi

    2 13.33%
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Results 31 to 40 of 55

  1. #31
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    I suppose I still don't understand how egocentrism is different, though.

    Also, I don't want the thread to get derailed, because I do want to understand how cognitive functions relate to narcissism/egocentrism.

    I don't deny that Ti isn't capable of narcissism. Without making an effort to use Ne, it's definitely possible for INTPs to dismiss valid points of view just because they don't fit into their framework. This is probably what's going on when we call something "stupid" that actually isn't.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  2. #32
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Yes. I grew less annoyed when I realized that it was what she wanted. If she had been clearer about that, I wouldn't have had an issue and would probably have gone along with it without a problem.

    It's part of why we broke up, because she got mad at me for not fulfilling her needs, despite the fact that she never told me them. Actually, I was able to guess that certain things I was doing was bothering her, but when I asked her if that was the case, she told me they ''weren't a big deal." I'm sure she thought she was doing something really awesome by not having me worry about it. The simple fact, though, is that "being free from worry" wasn't something I needed. I even told her that, several times.

    She thought she was being "empathetic" but she was just ignoring what I was saying in favor of what she likes to have happen. To me, that seems like Fi narcissim. Placing a lot of importance on what you think is "empathetic" and the "right thing to do", and not giving a damn if what people actually want contradicts that.
    That honestly sounds more characteristic of Fe than Fi.

    A narcissist would not respect your territory. She wouldn't even acknowledge that you had one. For the narcissist what's mine is mine and what's yours is also mine.

    I think you and your girlfriend just had incompatible standards of personal space. And you made no effort to understand her priorities it seems (because they were not your own). As such, your behaviour was (arguably) more "narcissistic" than hers. What she did was wrongly project some of her own needs onto you and fail to communicate these explicitly as her own. Again, I see this more often in Fe users than Fi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #33
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    That honestly sounds more characteristic of Fe than Fi.

    A narcissist would not respect your territory. She wouldn't even acknowledge that you had one. For the narcissist what's mine is mine and what's yours is also mine.

    I think you and your girlfriend just had incompatible standards of personal space. And you made no effort to understand her priorities it seems (because they were not your own). As such, your behaviour was (arguably) more "narcissistic" than hers. What she did was wrongly project some of her own needs onto you and fail to communicate these explicitly as her own. Again, I see this more often in Fe users than Fi.
    True. In that particular instance, it was somewhat self-centered. I'll admit that I didn't put a lot of thought into what her reaction would be.

    She was supposedly an ESFP. I definitely think there was Fi rather than Fe. She had strong emphasis on positivity and optimism (which i associate more with Fi). She also made eccentric fashion statements (she was sort of gothish) (which again, seems more Fi to me).
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  4. #34
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    She was supposedly an ESFP. I definitely think there was Fi rather than Fe. She had strong emphasis on positivity and optimism (which i associate more with Fi). She also made eccentric fashion statements (she was sort of gothish) (which again, seems more Fi to me).
    Fi can have quite a negative tone. Fi is really more about authenticity and congruity of feeling. A relentless emphasis on positivity and optimism or "putting a brave face on" irrespective of circumstance is more of a Fe thing, I'd say. Here outward appearances are more important than inner resonance.

    I guess if she was the only goth in her crowd you might characterise that as eccentric, otherwise it can just as easily be described as fitting in.

    I guess all of this is moot. I can only say that I have found it to be characteristic of Fe-doms (esp. Type 2s) to do 'unto you what they would have done unto them'. I.e. they mix up their own needs with yours and vice versa, or they think there is only one "correct" way of treating anther person: the way they want to be treated. A Fi-Dom is much more likely to understand and emphasise individual differences in relationships, less likely to conflate your issues with their own.

    Some of this is described in a brilliant book (series of essays) called "Pathological Altruism". While altruistic behaviours are ostensibly the opposite of narcissistic ones, they can have similarly destructive effects.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #35
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I don't think someone making a hyperbolic statement is grounds for a diagnosis of NPD. As such, your own statement is pure hyperbole. I guess that means the chances of either of you being a narcissist are about even...although...see below.
    Do I look delusional in any possible way? Do you think that I'm pretending that I'm the exclusive focus of attention of everybody here in this forum (especially females)?

    Also," it's not paranoia when they really are out to get you."
    Marm gets ganged up on by males on this forum. This is fact.
    No this is not. This accusation is laughable. She attacks males at random, and even accuses the most liberal, the most obviously pro-feminist of them to be "secretly sexists". And when some of them (slowly) react and wonder what she's doing, she accuses them to gang up on her. Just check the chain of causality.

    I think she should marry Zarathustra. The two are very similar, somehow. HPD+NPD forever!

    The predominant feature of narcissism is a lack of empathy.
    It depends which variant of NPD. But yes, it is related with a damaged or unhealthy sense of empathy.

    As such, it's more likely to afflict people who score low on feely functions.
    This is your assumption.

    For instance HPD (Histrionic Personality disorder) is very close to NPD -it is most of the time considered as a subtype of NPD-, and yet, most persons diagnosed with HPD usually have very good social skills.

    Supporting this, 75% of people diagnosed NPD are male.
    And this is false. According to what I've read so far, the real numbers are 60/40.
    And in HPD, the two third are females.

    You're manipulating us. Why?
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I don't think someone making a hyperbolic statement is grounds for a diagnosis of NPD. As such, your own statement is pure hyperbole. I guess that means the chances of either of you being a narcissist are about even...although...see below.
    Also," it's not paranoia when they really are out to get you."
    Marm gets ganged up on by males on this forum. This is fact.

    No one said damaged INTPs couldn't be narcissists.
    Ti can be unhealthy, even when it's dominant.

    The predominant feature of narcissism is a lack of empathy. As such, it's more likely to afflict people who score low on feely functions. Supporting this, 75% of people diagnosed NPD are male.
    that's currently under debate:


    either way - Fe & Ti do generally come together, so in both cases you are talking about the exact same people...
    which brings me to the point: everyone (myself included) who so far said it is Fe/Ti is an Fe-Ti user...

    is it really plausible that the Fi-Te half of the population is immune to NPD?

  7. #37
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    that's currently under debate:

    Your link is more than 12 years old (2001).

    Here is a more recent study (2008):

    "Prevalence of lifetime NPD was 6.2%, with rates greater for men (7.7%) than for women (4.8%). NPD was significantly more prevalent among black men and women and Hispanic women, younger adults, and separated/divorced/widowed and never married adults. NPD was associated with mental disability among men but not women. High co-occurrence rates of substance use, mood, and anxiety disorders and other personality disorders were observed. With additional comorbidity controlled for, associations with bipolar I disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, and schizotypal and borderline personality disorders remained significant, but weakened, among men and women. Similar associations were observed between NPD and specific phobia, generalized anxiety disorder, and bipolar II disorder among women and between NPD and alcohol abuse, alcohol dependence, drug dependence, and histrionic and obsessive-compulsive personality disorders among men. Dysthymic disorder was significantly and negatively associated with NPD."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18557663

    That makes 61% males, and 39% females.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Your link is more than 12 years old (2001).

    Here is a more recent study (2008):

    "Prevalence of lifetime NPD was 6.2%, with rates greater for men (7.7%) than for women (4.8%). NPD was significantly more prevalent among black men and women and Hispanic women, younger adults, and separated/divorced/widowed and never married adults. NPD was associated with mental disability among men but not women. High co-occurrence rates of substance use, mood, and anxiety disorders and other personality disorders were observed. With additional comorbidity controlled for, associations with bipolar I disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, and schizotypal and borderline personality disorders remained significant, but weakened, among men and women. Similar associations were observed between NPD and specific phobia, generalized anxiety disorder, and bipolar II disorder among women and between NPD and alcohol abuse, alcohol dependence, drug dependence, and histrionic and obsessive-compulsive personality disorders among men. Dysthymic disorder was significantly and negatively associated with NPD."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18557663

    That makes 61% males, and 39% females.
    good finding. and since most male Ti-Fe users are TPs rather then FJs, their could be a correlation. ofcourse in the same time for all we know it can turn out that they are all exceptions to their male-T/female-F statics. makes you wish there was some MBTI/NPD statistics, doesn't it?

  9. #39
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I don't believe that narcissism has anything to do with Jung or 'cognitive functions'.
    But it's not surprising that someone here would want to shoe horn them together.
    There is much more to the world and the mind than JCF. They do not subsume everything, or anything really.
    Carry on.

  10. #40
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Do I look delusional in any possible way? Do you think that I'm pretending that I'm the exclusive focus of attention of everybody here in this forum (especially females)?
    With that avatar?

    No this is not. This accusation is laughable. She attacks males at random, and even accuse the most liberal, the most obviously pro-feminist of them to be "secretly sexists". And when some of them (slowly) react and wonder what she's doing, she accuses them to gang up on her. Just check the chain of causality.

    I think she should marry Zarathustra. The two are very similar, somehow. HPD+NPD forever!
    I don't really want to involve myself in personal attacks of this nature. I know Marm doesn't appreciate being "diagnosed" on the forum and think she's entitled not to be scrutinised in that way.

    You're manipulating us. Why?
    Manipulating you into what, exactly?
    You are sounding a little paranoid there, Chief.

    I genuinely think Ts are likely to be more prone to NPD. I think Fs are more likely to be BPD or HPD, which, like you say, disproportionately affect women. This ties in with my anecdotal experience, and given that males are more likely to be T and females F, it fits with your data too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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