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View Poll Results: Which cognitive function do you associate the most with narcissism?

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  • Se

    3 20.00%
  • Si

    0 0%
  • Ne

    3 20.00%
  • Ni

    1 6.67%
  • Te

    1 6.67%
  • Ti

    3 20.00%
  • Fe

    2 13.33%
  • Fi

    2 13.33%
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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    But the paradox is that the way I use my own Fe is the opposite of Narcissism: it helps me to ponder things, to look more reasonable and more genuinely inclined to help and listen even in front of my usual audience.
    to be fair, both strains of Fe (TP & FJ) can be associated quite a few narcissistic traits:

    from the (N)TP bucket: bravado, grandioseness, opportunistic, superficial charm, swaggering, and a large arsenal of exploitative & manipulative behaviors.

    from the (N)FJ bucket: narcissistic rage & injury, intolerance of criticism, magical thinking, withdrawal, splitting, mortification, self-righteousness, and various self-perceived forms of perfectionism and superiority.

    i added the (N) because both appear a bit more frequently with the intuitive variety of each (But not even close to exclusively).

  2. #12
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    I want to say that Ti would be high up on the list, but what I'm thinking of is probably really Ti getting broadcasted by Fe ("Society is deluded, I'm one of the few rational people, etc. etc."). I know, for my part, I'm a very narcissistic person, so it would probably be one of my own main functions. I have a tendency to convince myself that I'm very good-looking, until I glance in the mirror or think about a time when I've glanced in the mirror. That would be weak Se and Si, I'd say, and probably . . . strong Fe, since what I'm focused on, when I have this narcissistic delusion, is a sense of how my looks are (not really) being received by others.

    Really, I can't imagine Fe not being involved in narcissism. Narcissism always entails viewing yourself from an outside, basically social perspective, and often takes on a very demonstrative aspect. It is unclear to me what means Fi would have of bending back on itself in such a way that narcissism would become possible for it; Fi tends to internalize the self rather than externalize it, and that leaves narcissism with no means of propping itself up. Since narcissism is basically personal in nature, I don't believe any of the other functions could be involved in it, except in a very non-fundamental way.
    Excellent. I was hoping to question some of my blind spots. So Fe also focuses a lot on how others see you? That hadn't occured to me before. I always thought it was about managing the emotional reactions of thers. But yes, that disdain for plebes is narcissistic too, it just slipped past my blind spot. I've definitely engaged in that in the past. I'd like to think I'm better at it these days.

    I'll bite and put forth what I think.

    I think Fi is the most narcisstic function. I see those with Fi as primary and auxillary function as stubborn in a really arbitrary way, and they seem to like making their motivations as opaque as possible. It seems to me that, not only will Fi refuse to bend, it will refuse to explain why it's so important that there can be no compromise. Fi demands that the environment adapt itself to suit it's needs, and refuses to change for the environment. That seems pretty narcissistic.

    Fi is right, simply because it is. No further explanation necessary. In fact, who are you to want an explanation?

    That's the attitude I notice from a lot of people with Fi.

    Worse, there's a tendency to view subjective preferences and beliefs as obvious facts, despite them not even existing in the realm of facts. Fi will do something like comment on how socially inappropriate something is, when really they are just talking about their own preferences, and not something that is anywhere near universal to the human experience.

    I'm sure I can think of other examples of this.

    It may be that what I'm calling narcissism is something else, I suppose.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post

    Worse, there's a tendency to view subjective preferences and beliefs as obvious facts, despite them not even existing in the realm of facts. Fi will do something like comment on how socially inappropriate something is, when really they are just talking about their own preferences, and not something that is anywhere near universal to the human experience.
    It sounds like Ti more then Fi.

  4. #14
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unnamed View Post
    It sounds like Ti more then Fi.
    Could be both, maybe.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I think Fi is the most narcisstic function. I see those with Fi as primary and auxillary function as stubborn in a really arbitrary way, and they seem to like making their motivations as opaque as possible. It seems to me that, not only will Fi refuse to bend, it will refuse to explain why it's so important that there can be no compromise. Fi demands that the environment adapt itself to suit it's needs, and refuses to change for the environment. That seems pretty narcissistic.
    funny you should say that, just a couple of days ago i've being on the opposite end of just the same misunderstanding: i had an argument with an ENFP over two information sources and i thought that the results indicated that the one i've read used a larger survey sample then the one she had. she lacked the Ti to understand what i was explaining, so to her it appeared as if i just assumed mine is better because it's mine. a.k.a. "just because" (thankfully she's typology-aware and was able to understand it was Ti thing).

    your reaction to Fi follows the same course of her reaction to Ti: you don't understand where the conclusion is coming from, so you assume it is "just because", and interpret it as a form of self-centered narcissism a.k.a. "because i said so".

    now it's true that a lot of Fi doms don't always know how to explain the process, its a largely emotional process and finding the correct words and definitions to place it in doesn't come easy for them, quite often the best verbalization they can come up with is "because it feels that way", but some can verbalize it if you are patient with them, and i've picked up on the principles of how it works from the ones who do: they are essentially imagining themselves in the other's shoes and asking "how would it feel to be there", so something is wrong because it feels to them that if they were in a position that's affected by it they will feel wronged (hurt, betrayal, invasiveness, etc). that process can be very egocentric, but it is quite the opposite of self-centered.

  6. #16
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    I said Ne, not because I can see any reason for it but because the most narcissistic person I have ever known was likely to be an ENTP (am pretty sure she is mentally ill). Really, I don't think type has anything to do with this.

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  7. #17
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    funny you should say that, just a couple of days ago i've being on the opposite end of just the same misunderstanding: i had an argument with an ENFP over two information sources and i thought that the results indicated that the one i've read used a larger survey sample then the one she had. she lacked the Ti to understand what i was explaining, so to her it appeared as if i just assumed mine is better because it's mine. a.k.a. "just because" (thankfully she's typology-aware and was able to understand it was Ti thing).

    your reaction to Fi follows the same course of her reaction to Ti: you don't understand where the conclusion is coming from, so you assume it is "just because", and interpret it as a form of self-centered narcissism a.k.a. "because i said so".
    This is a pretty good insight, but we usually seem capable of explaining ourselves if asked. At least I am.

    now it's true that a lot of Fi doms don't always know how to explain the process, its a largely emotional process and finding the correct words and definitions to place it in doesn't come easy for them, quite often the best verbalization they can come up with is "because it feels that way", but some can verbalize it if you are patient with them, and i've picked up on the principles of how it works from the ones who do: they are essentially imagining themselves in the other's shoes and asking "how would it feel to be there", so something is wrong because it feels to them that if they were in a position that's affected by it they will feel wronged (hurt, betrayal, invasiveness, etc). that process can be very egocentric, but it is quite the opposite of self-centered.
    That's interesting, except how does Fi work for inanimate options?

    Also, it seems not to occur them that it might be better to ask the other person about what they want and how they feel instead of extrapolating from their own situation? And then expecting the other person to reciprocate because they did something the other person didn't even want them to? When it's described the way you put it, I suppose that's not selfish, exactly, but from my point of view, it sometimes looks like they did that only to manipulate me into getting what they want.

    If that last part uses too many vague pronouns, I can clarify.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    This is a pretty good insight, but we usually seem capable of explaining ourselves if asked. At least I am.
    half the bridge is seen how another function works, the other is realizing they don't have yours.

    there is a reason most Ti descriptions include the phrase "finding the right words", those descriptions are mostly sympathetic and it's certainly isn't the core mechanism of Ti, but it does provide you with well defined semantic networks which make the task of explaining - anything - much much easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    That's interesting, except how does Fi work for inanimate options.
    good question... mostly with Te, but not exclusively: i am not a 100% sure about it but i think they can and actually do treat objects with Fi - sounds crazy i know, but i've heard stuff like "the pencils look crowded", "the book is lonely", "the car wants attention"... those phrasings seem so counter intuitive to me, and yet you hear them all the time. i haven't considered the possibility that they might be indicative of type... it might be worth paying attention too.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    it seems not to occur them that it might be better to ask the other person about what they want and how they feel instead of extrapolating from their own situation? And then expecting the other person to reciprocate because they did something the other person didn't even want them to? When it's described the way you put it, I suppose that's not selfish, exactly, but from my point of view, it sometimes looks like they did that only to manipulate me into getting what they want.

    If that last part uses too many vague pronouns, I can clarify.
    are you dancing around a specific behavior from a specific Fi user? because quite a few FPs i've known do ask.

  9. #19
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post


    are you dancing around a specific behavior from a specific Fi user? because quite a few FPs i've known do ask.
    As much of a cliche as this is, the example I'm thinking of involves my ex-girlfriend.

    The specific example I'm thinking of was something that happened after we broke up. She made a big issue about respecting my "territory." (social circle) I don't care about this. Even if it makes me uncomfortable, the way I see it, I have no right to ask such a thing of her..those kinds of obligations are severed.

    I kind of didn't understand what she was even talking about, and then she freaked out because I invaded her "'territory". She said, '"look at how hard I respected your territory, how can you go around and do something like this!"

    It's like, I don't care if you talk to any of my friends. How the hell can I tell you what to do when you broke up with me? It almost seemed to me like her "concern" for me was a way of manipulating me into fulfilling her wants.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    As much of a cliche as this is, the example I'm thinking of involves my ex-girlfriend.

    The specific example I'm thinking of was something that happened after we broke up. She made a big issue about respecting my "territory." (social circle) I don't care about this. Even if it makes me uncomfortable, the way I see it, I have no right to ask such a thing of her..those kinds of obligations are severed.

    I kind of didn't understand what she was even talking about, and then she freaked out because I invaded her "'territory". She said, '"look at how hard I respected your territory, how can you go around and do something like this!"

    It's like, I don't care if you talk to any of my friends. How the hell can I tell you what to do when you broke up with me? It almost seemed to me like her "concern" for me was a way of manipulating me into fulfilling her wants.
    when she made the big deal of it, did you tell her you don't care about her going into your social turf?

    i do realize the moment of a breakup isn't the most attentive and clear minded time, for anyone... but it sounds like she was 2 steps ahead of you in thinking of what she wanted to happen after the breakup.

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