• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Ti and Te arguing: The film critic vs. the lawyer

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
No way, is that true. Te doms can't even come to a decision without doing research it seems.
Not really. Not compared with Ti-doms. They'll get stuck on sorting through all the data to the point that it takes them forever to make a decision -- whereas Te-doms will use the "relevant" data only and not want to "waste time" with the rest. While both types of T-dom will want to have sufficient information before making a decision, Ti-doms have a much higher standard for what constitutes "sufficient", to the point that productivity is lost.
Well, my way of problem solving could be because I got an A.A. in psychology yes. However, it could also be because I am a core 6 and I need something outside of myself in order to verify that the information is correct. I don't always trust myself enough to solve the problem correctly though. I do have the Ti detail-orientedness though. When a problem is to be solved I like it to be like solving a rubix cube where every piece is in the right place, where everything just makes sense, and where the problem is completely 100% solved and there are no questions left. I sometimes become obsessive about solving problems and if I can't find the solution, I literally will stay up all night trying to solve the problem. I really don't like this about me.

I also should mention that when I consult experts in the field on how to solve a problem I often do it to generate ideas, and don't always trust the experts. This really pisses off a lot of people too. For instance, I have PTSD and have tried for years now to consult therapists on how to fix my problem. They will often give me suggestions as well, and I often times call them dumb asses because I often think that I can solve the problem better than them. I piss off a lot of people.
^ Sounds ENTP.
 

The Great One

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,439
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
6w7
[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]

Not really. Not compared with Ti-doms. They'll get stuck on sorting through all the data to the point that it takes them forever to make a decision -- whereas Te-doms will use the "relevant" data only and not want to "waste time" with the rest. While both types of T-dom will want to have sufficient information before making a decision, Ti-doms have a much higher standard for what constitutes "sufficient", to the point that productivity is lost.

Ok I see what you mean. Yeah, I agree with that. What I thought that you were trying to say was that Te doms often make decisions without doing any research at all, and I knew that was bullshit. However, I agree that because Te doms are all about efficiency, they often will make decisions much more quickly than Ti users, because it is more efficient and wastes less time.

^ Sounds ENTP.

Yeah, I agree that does sound more ENTP.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
One thing that I don't relate to with most ENTP's is that they don't really do much research to solve problems though. They seem to figure out the problem's solution in their head. It seems as though when you reach outside of your own brain into the external world to consult resources, that you are using Te doesn't it? I do a lot of research in problem solving, and often consult experts.

Research isn't really Te, actually. Logical organizing of external information would be Te, but research itself is pretty Ne/Si.

You sound pretty solidly ENTP to me as well. I don't pick up ENFP from your video.
 

The Great One

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,439
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
6w7
[MENTION=3521]Eric B[/MENTION] [MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION] [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]

There are a few things that sort of put me on the fence between ENFP and ENTP though...

1. I can read other people people like books, but I can't read myself well or know myself well at all. It's like I have X ray vision for other people's personalities but trying to see through myself is like trying to see through a tin wall. This sounds more ENTP. It seems more ENFP's would know themselves better.

2. I'm very comfortable venting and expressing my emotions. Also, I've found that women especially will tell me that I am a great listener. I've noticed that most Ti users aren't the easiest people to talk to about problems with. I've noticed that when venting emotions to ENTP's, their Ti will want to focus on solving the problem rather than comforting your feelings. Whereas the ENFP will be more focused on comforting you emotionally than solving the problem. I seem to be more focused on comforting their emotions which seems more ENFP.

3. Elfboy and I often times like to debate ideas when we converse over the phone. When we are at a stalemate over an idea, we often will make a thread on the issue and see what the opinion is of the people of this site, to confirm which of us is right. This seems more like a Te style (agreed upon logic system than a Ti internal based logical system).

4. I could see both the Ti and Fi user both liking mbti, but for different reasons. I could see the Ti user liking MBTI because they see themselves objectively like a computer. The Ti user would want to understand MBTI to figure out how they work, almost like tearing apart a machine to see it's inter-mechanics. The Fi users are more like "Chicken Noodle Soup for the Soul" mother fuckers, and would want to study the mbti for more reasons of personal growth. I'm not sure what my reason is, but it seems like it is to understand myself more.

EDIT: Yes, Eric B, I have had to do several APA style research papers, and they seemed Te as fuck.
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,621
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
548
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
2. I'm very comfortable venting and expressing my emotions. Also, I've found that women especially will tell me that I am a great listener. I've noticed that most Ti users aren't the easiest people to talk to about problems with. I've noticed that when venting emotions to ENTP's, their Ti will want to focus on solving the problem rather than comforting your feelings. Whereas the ENFP will be more focused on comforting you emotionally than solving the problem. I seem to be more focused on comforting their emotions which seems more ENFP.
In your case, it seems to be a more developed (than these other ENTP's you mention) tertiary Fe. This of course will be stronger than for a Ti dom. with inferior Fe.
And it seems totally object-oriented (as shown in your first point, where you're good at knowing others more than yourself). An ENFP would go inward as the source of his comforting, which requires being more in tune with one's own inner states.
3. Elfboy and I often times like to debate ideas when we converse over the phone. When we are at a stalemate over an idea, we often will make a thread on the issue and see what the opinion is of the people of this site, to confirm which of us is right. This seems more like a Te style (agreed upon logic system than a Ti internal based logical system).
Ithink that would just be common dom. Ne. You toss around these ideas, then then go to the outer world to see what others think. You're not actually making a logical decision at that point. (You've already made it, and don't agree, but are simply trying to confirm it).
4. I could see both the Ti and Fi user both liking mbti, but for different reasons. I could see the Ti user liking MBTI because they see themselves objectively like a computer. The Ti user would want to understand MBTI to figure out how they work, almost like tearing apart a machine to see it's inter-mechanics. The Fi users are more like "Chicken Noodle Soup for the Soul" mother fuckers, and would want to study the mbti for more reasons of personal growth. I'm not sure what my reason is, but it seems like it is to understand myself more.
A non-Fi can try to understand himself; and the whole "computer/mechanics" thing is a bit of an overgeneralization. And it's not completely either/or. (Dissecting yourself technically like a machine could still be the way you seek to "understand yourself"). While perhaps "chicken soup for the soul" might capture the Fi perspective, all trying to understand onesself doesn't fall into that sort of thing. (Do you really feel that is how you're approaching the theory?)
Life circumstances could have simply brought you to a place where you want to use it to understand yourself. Perhaps just maturity (Realizing that ego's logical perspective is not the solution for everything).
 

The Great One

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,439
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
6w7
[MENTION=3521]Eric B[/MENTION]

In your case, it seems to be a more developed (than these other ENTP's you mention) tertiary Fe. This of course will be stronger than for a Ti dom. with inferior Fe.
And it seems totally object-oriented (as shown in your first point, where you're good at knowing others more than yourself). An ENFP would go inward as the source of his comforting, which requires being more in tune with one's own inner states.

So the fact that I'm going outward points to Fe?
Ithink that would just be common dom. Ne. You toss around these ideas, then then go to the outer world to see what others think. You're not actually making a logical decision at that point. (You've already made it, and don't agree, but are simply trying to confirm it).

Makes sense.

A non-Fi can try to understand himself; and the whole "computer/mechanics" thing is a bit of an overgeneralization. And it's not completely either/or. (Dissecting yourself technically like a machine could still be the way you seek to "understand yourself"). While perhaps "chicken soup for the soul" might capture the Fi perspective, all trying to understand onesself doesn't fall into that sort of thing. (Do you really feel that is how you're approaching the theory?)
Life circumstances could have simply brought you to a place where you want to use it to understand yourself. Perhaps just maturity (Realizing that ego's logical perspective is not the solution for everything).

I'm not doing that great mentally right now, so I use the theory to better myself mentally. I also enjoy reading it to understand how others work. I notice that a big difference between myself and Elfboy is that things can make pretty good sense but not be 100% clear and he's fine with it. To me, everything must fit together perfect like a puzzle piece.
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,621
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
548
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Yes, that's the N + Ti perspective. For N + F, it's not the clarity, but more the personal usefulness of the theory.
And the outward turning is what makes the function extraverted.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Since you asked for my input: I agree 100% with [MENTION=3521]Eric B[/MENTION]. :)
 
S

Society

Guest
This sounds sort of akin to rationalism vs. empiricism. Rationalism seems sort of Ti, and empiricism seems sort of Te.
and yet we just saw 3 NTPs gathering and building on empirical sources to figure things out throughout a discussion :shock:

were we all typed incorrectly? i doubt it.
did we not use our Ti? yes, yes we did.

real people outside of personality pages will go for internal logic or empirical evidence depending on the situation.

all other metaphors seem to have the same failing:
people switch between "bottom up" (Ti) and "top down" (Te) approaches.
people switch between deductive (Ti) and inductive (Te) reasoning all the time.
did i mention the "fact checking" trait? i think both sides have made the claims to that...

the metaphors break down the moment you apply them to any real person... and yet, it would clearly be incorrect to say that the personality differences between TPs and TJs aren't there: we see them in people all around us. even if people do all of the above, there are clearly different intellectual habits built over time, different preferences, even different levels of enjoyment from different kinds of intellectual activities, and similarities on all those levels do indeed seem to center around two dots in the possible-mindspace, each packed with personality traits that have nothing to do with discussions and arguing styles at all.

so what is it?

here's my bet so far:
it's not that Te people are exploring information differently, it's that they aren't really exploring information in the first place, they are using the information.

they carry an internal backpack of what constitutes themselves: what they want, what they deem right, how they would like things to be - essentially their Fi - and not being able to see it out there in the real world is a source of cognitive dissonance for them - the stressful wedge between their internal world and the outside world - so they walk through life looking for ways to unpack that backpack. they use their logic as a pathfinding system, making a map of how to go from A to Z. they are more prone to empirical evidence not because they can't see inconsistencies or fallacies, but because empirical evidence is a lot more useful when one is making a mental map in which you plan to walk on.

Ti people? we don't have that backpack to unload, instead we absorb information, and the resulting stressful wedge between our internal world and the outside world - the cognitive dissonance we seek to resolve - stems directly from our own lack of understanding the information we absorb. this is why we explore it, ask dozen questions and when each is answered ask a dozen more, we play around with the information, poke it, feel out it's shape & experiment with it, forming a better definition of it, stretch it to opposite ends and then push them to collide with each other to find out the inconsistencies. we're the ones pushing the red button for no reason other than finding out what it does. it's not that the logic is mechanically different, it's a logical thinking that is trained to satisfy a different sort of need, a different form of cognitive dissonance.
 
Last edited:

The Great One

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,439
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
6w7
Yes, that's the N + Ti perspective. For N + F, it's not the clarity, but more the personal usefulness of the theory.
And the outward turning is what makes the function extraverted.

Is it because Ti goes for precision so much? Also, I am assuming that things must make 100% clear sense to you as well with no holes in between?

Since you asked for my input: I agree 100% with Eric B

Yeah, it looks like both the NTP's and the NFP's, and even the ESTJ's agree that I'm ENTP. I must really be ENTP, lol
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Yeah, it looks like both the NTP's and the NFP's, and even the ESTJ's agree that I'm ENTP. I must really be ENTP, lol

I used to be very certain you are an ENTP as well, but I did some research yesterday on the functions, and I noticed how Te likes to collect systems of measurement for analysis in problems, a foundation to empirically support a construct. I thought that whole "gather everybody's opinion" thing was Fe, but I guess it's supposedly actually Te. Agreeing with people over social norms I guess is much different than agreeing with people on a question of reasoning.

I'm wondering, is your line of reasoning more about connecting various ideas and frameworks together, are you more into thinking with dynamic developments, or kind of a transformation of both?
 

The Great One

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,439
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
6w7
I used to be very certain you are an ENTP as well, but I did some research yesterday on the functions, and I noticed how Te likes to collect systems of measurement for analysis in problems, a foundation to empirically support a construct. I thought that whole "gather everybody's opinion" thing was Fe, but I guess it's supposedly actually Te. Agreeing with people over social norms I guess is much different than agreeing with people on a question of reasoning.

I'm wondering, is your line of reasoning more about connecting various ideas and frameworks together, are you more into thinking with dynamic developments, or kind of a transformation of both?

Read the over the past few posts. Eric B addresses this.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Yeah, it looks like both the NTP's and the NFP's, and even the ESTJ's agree that I'm ENTP. I must really be ENTP, lol
:yesss:

Also I agree with what [MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION] said about Te using information and Ti exploring it.
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,621
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
548
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Is it because Ti goes for precision so much? Also, I am assuming that things must make 100% clear sense to you as well with no holes in between?
Yes, Ti is the one that goes for precision. It's basically an internal-based order that is used to abstract the external data.
And yes, I would prefer ho "holes".

Conveniently enough, Personality Junkie just put up an article on Ti vs Fi:
http://personalityjunkie.com/05/introverted-feeling-fi-vs-introverted-thinking-ti
 

The Great One

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,439
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
6w7
Yes, Ti is the one that goes for precision. It's basically an internal-based order that is used to abstract the external data.
And yes, I would prefer ho "holes".

Conveniently enough, Personality Junkie just put up an article on Ti vs Fi:
http://personalityjunkie.com/05/introverted-feeling-fi-vs-introverted-thinking-ti

:yesss:

Also I agree with what [MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION] said about Te using information and Ti exploring it.

Thank you both for your input
 

Chiharu

New member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
662
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Sounds about right to me. I have a very lawyerish vibe when I argue, and my SO (Ti user) drives me INSANE when he nitpicks my arguments.
 

The Great One

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,439
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
6w7
[MENTION=3521]Eric B[/MENTION] [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that I tend to sexually attract Fi users though, Ti users generally dislike me in real life? Why is this?
 

Il Morto Che Parla

New member
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
1,260
MBTI Type
xxTP
I can't decide which is a shittier site to witness online, an NTP vs NTP debate, NTJ vs NTJ debate or an NTP vs NTJ debate. Poll?

The NTJ debate is characterized by blindly being sure in some "reality" which no one else accepts, and the NTP debate is characterised by tert (manipulative) or inferior (unconscious) Fe, leading to passive aggression and fake "nonchalance" when really the person is deeply bitter and angry but can't even admit it to themselves.
 

The Great One

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,439
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
6w7
I can't decide which is a shittier site to witness online, an NTP vs NTP debate, NTJ vs NTJ debate or an NTP vs NTJ debate. Poll?

The NTJ debate is characterized by blindly being sure in some "reality" which no one else accepts, and the NTP debate is characterised by tert (manipulative) or inferior (unconscious) Fe, leading to passive aggression and fake "nonchalance" when really the person is deeply bitter and angry but can't even admit it to themselves.

Go to typewatch, then you'll really see some fun debates. People will tell you that they know everything about you, and will try to dictate who you are because you give off a certain "vibe". They won't even allow you to debate them on this either.
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,621
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
548
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
[MENTION=3521]Eric B[/MENTION] [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that I tend to sexually attract Fi users though, Ti users generally dislike me in real life? Why is this?

Having the same type (or intelligence variant, with the same functions) is no guarantee you'll get along with someone. You'll just tend to think the same way (i.e. the same processes), but if the things you're thinking on (your beliefs, philosophies, etc) are opposed, then you can still clash. (I have often figured that it's all the more worse seeing my "hero" function Ti used against me; like used to support something I really disagree with).
It's all about the ego, not the functions it happens to prefer.

As far as sexual attraction, that could simply be the element of mystery. Anything too much like themselves they might not be interested in, while someone with a totally different function like that might seem "exotic".
 
Top