Ti and Te arguing: The film critic vs. the lawyer

[The Great One]

What here makes you think you're an ENFP, “in denial” (which I was once essentially accused of as well)?
You seemed to identify with my example of switching to Te as backup. The tertiary may “inflate” itself to appear stronger than it is sometimes, but this is still a temporary thing. I don't see why anyone would be in denial of their true type. That seems to stem from a misconception that Feelers (especially male ones) all want to be Thinkers.
But it's our unpreferred perspectives that we are usually more in denial of.

I could be wrong, but from what I've seen, ENTP seems right. In the OP, you create categories and name them (typical Berens/Nardi Ti definitions), which is an internal analysis being expressed, and while anyone can do this, it is an evidence of preference. (Fi preferrers think too much of that is too “impersonal”).

I will probably make a thread about it and invite you to it. I've been contemplating this for a long time.

 

[EJCC]

I could be wrong, but from what I've seen, ENTP seems right. In the OP, you create categories and name them (typical Berens/Nardi Ti definitions), which is an internal analysis being expressed, and while anyone can do this, it is an evidence of preference. (Fi preferrers think too much of that is too “impersonal”).

Out of curiosity, what makes The Great One any different from Elfboy, in this regard? I get similar vibes from the two of them, and I've seen them both make "naming" threads in an attempt to better understand various concepts.

 

[The Great One]

Out of curiosity, what makes The Great One any different from Elfboy, in this regard? I get similar vibes from the two of them, and I've seen them both make "naming" threads in an attempt to better understand various concepts.

[MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] and I actually came up with the concept of this thread together. He named the Ti user "the film critic" and I called the Te user, "the lawyer".

 

[Eric B]

Out of curiosity, what makes The Great One any different from Elfboy, in this regard? I get similar vibes from the two of them, and I've seen them both make "naming" threads in an attempt to better understand various concepts.

I'm trying to remember if I've discussed type with Elfboy, and just the character of his posts in general (the name is certainly familiar). I don't recall ever questioning his type, so when I think of both names, they may be similar, but don't seem exactly the same to me. Great One seems a bit more "technical" oriented, and Eflboy less so.
Just checking recent posts, I see this in the "Typed Correctly" thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62353&page=5&p=2073687&viewfull=1#post2073687

That would seem to fit what I remember about his style of communicating, and again, it's not as technically oriented as what I remember of Great One. And he seems sure he's an F there, as well, disclaiming both Ti and Te.

[MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] and I actually came up with the concept of this thread together. He named the Ti user "the film critic" and I called the Te user, "the lawyer".

So if you both share dominant Ne, then there will be a lot of similarity (perhaps hard to tell the types apart, and to Jung, originally, they were the same type), and you can both put forth a lot of ideas like that. Ne can certainly name ideas, but you're the one focusing on the categories more, in being the author of this thread, and repeatedly referencing them. Again, compare with the way he argues type in that other thread. (Maybe you've posted like that too, but if so, I don't remember).

 

[EJCC]

I'm trying to remember if I've discussed type with Elfboy, and just the character of his posts in general (the name is certainly familiar). I don't recall ever questioning his type, so when I think of both names, they may be similar, but don't seem exactly the same to me. Great One seems a bit more "technical" oriented, and Eflboy less so.
Just checking recent posts, I see this in the "Typed Correctly" thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62353&page=5&p=2073687&viewfull=1#post2073687

That would seem to fit what I remember about his style of communicating, and again, it's not as technically oriented as what I remember of Great One. And he seems sure he's an F there, as well, disclaiming both Ti and Te.

Elfboy has always seemed more Te than Ti, to me. More of a lawyer than a film critic.

But I don't know The Great One well enough to know from anything except for "vibe theory".

So if you both share dominant Ne, then there will be a lot of similarity (perhaps hard to tell the types apart, and to Jung, originally, they were the same type), and you can both put forth a lot of ideas like that. Ne can certainly name ideas, but you're the one focusing on the categories more, in being the author of this thread, and repeatedly referencing them. Again, compare with the way he argues type in that other thread. (Maybe you've posted like that too, but if so, I don't remember).

Elfboy tends to do that, too. But I dunno. I could see them being ENFP/ENTP.

 

[The Great One]

I'm trying to remember if I've discussed type with Elfboy, and just the character of his posts in general (the name is certainly familiar). I don't recall ever questioning his type, so when I think of both names, they may be similar, but don't seem exactly the same to me. Great One seems a bit more "technical" oriented, and Eflboy less so.
Just checking recent posts, I see this in the "Typed Correctly" thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62353&page=5&p=2073687&viewfull=1#post2073687

That would seem to fit what I remember about his style of communicating, and again, it's not as technically oriented as what I remember of Great One. And he seems sure he's an F there, as well, disclaiming both Ti and Te.


So if you both share dominant Ne, then there will be a lot of similarity (perhaps hard to tell the types apart, and to Jung, originally, they were the same type), and you can both put forth a lot of ideas like that. Ne can certainly name ideas, but you're the one focusing on the categories more, in being the author of this thread, and repeatedly referencing them. Again, compare with the way he argues type in that other thread. (Maybe you've posted like that too, but if so, I don't remember).

It's true. I am very good with technical things such as gizmos, gadgets, etc. In fact, I'm majoring in computer science right now because of my tremendous technical ability. Another thing that I do not relate to when it comes to Fi users is how they tell me that they are constantly thinking about their values, what they believe in, and how they feel about things: I never do this...ever. I also find myself empathetic though, which most Ti users I find suck at, and I'm also pretty good at expressing my feelings.

 

[EJCC]

Another thing that I do not relate to when it comes to Fi users is how they tell me that they are constantly thinking about their values, what they believe in, and how they feel about things: I never do this...ever.

Pretty good argument for ENTP, right there.

Thoughts from [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION]?

 

[The Great One]

Pretty good argument for ENTP, right there.

Thoughts from [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION]?

Though, one argument for ENFP is that I highly dislike Fe, and that it keeps you from really expressing your real thoughts and opinions (and possibly feelings) about an issue. Fe is often trying to sugar-coat things in order to offend people less in my opinion, and I feel that it really censors me. It really pisses me off sometimes, I must say. However, I can use it if need be, I just dislike using it.

 

[EJCC]

Though, one argument for ENFP is that I highly dislike Fe, and that it keeps you from really expressing your real thoughts and opinions (and possibly feelings) about an issue. Fe is often trying to sugar-coat things in order to offend people less in my opinion, and I feel that it really censors me. It really pisses me off sometimes, I must say. However, I can use it if need be, I just dislike using it.

Seems like a common ENTP opinion. I think it's natural for Thinkers to feel some cognitive dissonance with their F function.

 

[Elfboy]

Pretty good argument for ENTP, right there.
Thoughts from [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION]?

I'm having difficulty deducing [MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION]'s type; however, I can say that I am always thinking about my feelings and values (it's a waste of time much of the time, but I do it anyway lol)

 

[The Great One]

Seems like a common ENTP opinion. I think it's natural for Thinkers to feel some cognitive dissonance with their F function.

But it doesn't seem like most ENTP's hate Fe though, do they?

I'm having difficulty deducing [MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION]'s type; however, I can say that I am always thinking about my feelings and values (it's a waste of time much of the time, but I do it anyway lol)

You have literally been talking to me for about a year now and still can't discern my type. I'm a hard nut to peg.

 

[EJCC]

But it doesn't seem like most ENTP's hate Fe though, do they?

Are you kidding? I don't think I've ever met an ENTP who liked Fe as anything but a tool to use whenever they absolutely had to (or whenever it would make things more "fun", generally).

And I can't even count the number of INTJs I've met who hate Fi...

 

[Eric B]

[MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION] How old are you? If you're not that old, then the tertiary might not be that developed. It develops at different times, sometimes in the 30's. And it will always be less preferred that Ti, and the tertiary is a vulnerable area, so if you're bombarded with too many products of the function, it will be very uncomfortable. (Like if I'm bombarded with too much Si stuff, or if I bombard an INFJ with too much Ti).

Type is defined by the two preferred functions ONLY. You can use the other ones as evidence by their archetypal roles, but not relative "strengths", or you dislike it "too much for it to be on the ego-syntonic side". Anything not preferred by the ego will be suppressed to some extent.

Otherwise, what you said in post #26 should be the clincher. It doesn't really matter so much Fi vs Fe; F in general is clearly lower in ego's preference.

 

[The Great One]

Are you kidding? I don't think I've ever met an ENTP who liked Fe as anything but a tool to use whenever they absolutely had to (or whenever it would make things more "fun", generally).

And I can't even count the number of INTJs I've met who hate Fi...

You make a good point there. One thing that I don't relate to with most ENTP's is that they don't really do much research to solve problems though. They seem to figure out the problem's solution in their head. It seems as though when you reach outside of your own brain into the external world to consult resources, that you are using Te doesn't it? I do a lot of research in problem solving, and often consult experts.

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION] How old are you? If you're not that old, then the tertiary might not be that developed. It develops at different times, sometimes in the 30's. And it will always be less preferred that Ti, and the tertiary is a vulnerable area, so if you're bombarded with too many products of the function, it will be very uncomfortable. (Like if I'm bombarded with too much Si stuff, or if I bombard an INFJ with too much Ti).

Type is defined by the two preferred functions ONLY. You can use the other ones as evidence by their archetypal roles, but not relative "strengths", or you dislike it "too much for it to be on the ego-syntonic side". Anything not preferred by the ego will be suppressed to some extent.

Otherwise, what you said in post #26 should be the clincher. It doesn't really matter so much Fi vs Fe; F in general is clearly lower in ego's preference.

It's strange though, because when you first talk to me, you would think that I was a feeler. I seemed to be in a Ne<Fe loop for a really long time. In fact, the first time I ever talked to [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] on the phone he thought that I was an ENFJ.

 

[Elfboy]

It's strange though, because when you first talk to me, you would think that I was a feeler. I seemed to be in a Ne<Fe loop for a really long time. In fact, the first time I ever talked to [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION] on the phone he thought that I was an ENFJ.

no I didn't. I thought you were too Ne dom to function

 

[EJCC]

You make a good point there. One thing that I don't relate to with most ENTP's is that they don't really do much research to solve problems though. They seem to figure out the problem's solution in their head. It seems as though when you reach outside of your own brain into the external world to consult resources, that you are using Te doesn't it? I do a lot of research in problem solving, and often consult experts.

Not at all. The NTPs I know are research fiends. (See Red Herring's blog, especially; practically half the blog consists of references to Wikipedia articles. ) Could just be that Ne-dominance means they'd rather just get started on their brilliant new idea ASAP -- especially when they aren't as mature.

If anything, it's the Te-doms who are too quick to make decisions without doing enough research. As we all know, the Ti motto is "No detail is unnecessary."

 

[Eric B]

You make a good point there. One thing that I don't relate to with most ENTP's is that they don't really do much research to solve problems though. They seem to figure out the problem's solution in their head. It seems as though when you reach outside of your own brain into the external world to consult resources, that you are using Te doesn't it? I do a lot of research in problem solving, and often consult experts.

Could that be learned behavior? Like some sort of circumstance forced you into that pattern. Like a job, or education where you were taught that way (my wife went through this in a psychology curriculum, where a lot of Te was drummed into their heads, and you have to learn things that way and carry it out that way).

Really, that way of processing information will be preferred by neither ENFP nor ENTP. For both of them, something will have to be pushing them out of their normal Pi comfort zone.

You also both have Ne, which reaches outside to take in the information. That could lead to research as well. (You're taking in the information; not necessarily making judgments with it yet). For years I heavily researched interests of mine, where I wondered what things mean (like with General Relativity theory), even before the Internet, when it was hiking to the library. (Now, of course, I still do, online). When I couldn't find some info I wanted from books (not having enough info to make a clear judgment internally), I once event went to ask a professor at Columbia. The scientists created these theories, so they will know these things. I take from them what I want to know, and then make my own decisions with it. (I don't stick with "they said this, it must be true).
That was clearly Ne. I want to take in the info (Pe) enough, so I'll do whatever is necessary to get it.

It's strange though, because when you first talk to me, you would think that I was a feeler. I seemed to be in a Ne<Fe loop for a really long time.

That could be Interaction Style ("informing", which is "people-focused", and thus softer than a "directive" type, and thus softer than all the other T's —ST and NTJ). Again, with the dom. Ne, both ENFP and ENTP will seem very similar on the surface. Especially compared to some of the overgeneralized NT "calm, cool vulcan" descriptions.

 

[The Great One]

no I didn't. I thought you were too Ne dom to function

Yeah, I remember that you thought that you either thought that I was an ENTP or an ENFJ.

Not at all. The NTPs I know are research fiends. (See Red Herring's blog, especially; practically half the blog consists of references to Wikipedia articles. ) Could just be that Ne-dominance means they'd rather just get started on their brilliant new idea ASAP -- especially when they aren't as mature.

If anything, it's the Te-doms who are too quick to make decisions without doing enough research. As we all know, the Ti motto is "No detail is unnecessary."

No way, is that true. Te doms can't even come to a decision without doing research it seems.

Could that be learned behavior? Like some sort of circumstance forced you into that pattern. Like a job, or education where you were taught that way (my wife went through this in a psychology curriculum, where a lot of Te was drummed into their heads, and you have to learn things that way and carry it out that way).

Really, that way of processing information will be preferred by neither ENFP nor ENTP. For both of them, something will have to be pushing them out of their normal Pi comfort zone.

You also both have Ne, which reaches outside to take in the information. That could lead to research as well. (You're taking in the information; not necessarily making judgments with it yet). For years I heavily researched interests of mine, where I wondered what things mean (like with General Relativity theory), even before the Internet, when it was hiking to the library. (Now, of course, I still do, online). When I couldn't find some info I wanted from books (not having enough info to make a clear judgment internally), I once event went to ask a professor at Columbia. The scientists created these theories, so they will know these things. I take from them what I want to know, and then make my own decisions with it. (I don't stick with "they said this, it must be true).
That was clearly Ne. I want to take in the info (Pe) enough, so I'll do whatever is necessary to get it.

That could be Interaction Style ("informing", which is "people-focused", and thus softer than a "directive" type, and thus softer than all the other T's —ST and NTJ). Again, with the dom. Ne, both ENFP and ENTP will seem very similar on the surface. Especially compared to some of the overgeneralized NT "calm, cool vulcan" descriptions.

Well, my way of problem solving could be because I got an A.A. in psychology yes. However, it could also be because I am a core 6 and I need something outside of myself in order to verify that the information is correct. I don't always trust myself enough to solve the problem correctly though. I do have the Ti detail-orientedness though. When a problem is to be solved I like it to be like solving a rubix cube where every piece is in the right place, where everything just makes sense, and where the problem is completely 100% solved and there are no questions left. I sometimes become obsessive about solving problems and if I can't find the solution, I literally will stay up all night trying to solve the problem. I really don't like this about me.

I also should mention that when I consult experts in the field on how to solve a problem I often do it to generate ideas, and don't always trust the experts. This really pisses off a lot of people too. For instance, I have PTSD and have tried for years now to consult therapists on how to fix my problem. They will often give me suggestions as well, and I often times call them dumb asses because I often think that I can solve the problem better than them. I piss off a lot of people.

 

[Eric B]

Yeah, that sounds like Ne+Ti, and typical ENTP!
And if you have a psychological degree, then you learned things in a very Te way (atatistics; and did you have to learn how to write papers APA style?)