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  1. #41
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    No way, is that true. Te doms can't even come to a decision without doing research it seems.
    Not really. Not compared with Ti-doms. They'll get stuck on sorting through all the data to the point that it takes them forever to make a decision -- whereas Te-doms will use the "relevant" data only and not want to "waste time" with the rest. While both types of T-dom will want to have sufficient information before making a decision, Ti-doms have a much higher standard for what constitutes "sufficient", to the point that productivity is lost.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Well, my way of problem solving could be because I got an A.A. in psychology yes. However, it could also be because I am a core 6 and I need something outside of myself in order to verify that the information is correct. I don't always trust myself enough to solve the problem correctly though. I do have the Ti detail-orientedness though. When a problem is to be solved I like it to be like solving a rubix cube where every piece is in the right place, where everything just makes sense, and where the problem is completely 100% solved and there are no questions left. I sometimes become obsessive about solving problems and if I can't find the solution, I literally will stay up all night trying to solve the problem. I really don't like this about me.

    I also should mention that when I consult experts in the field on how to solve a problem I often do it to generate ideas, and don't always trust the experts. This really pisses off a lot of people too. For instance, I have PTSD and have tried for years now to consult therapists on how to fix my problem. They will often give me suggestions as well, and I often times call them dumb asses because I often think that I can solve the problem better than them. I piss off a lot of people.
    ^ Sounds ENTP.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @EJCC

    Not really. Not compared with Ti-doms. They'll get stuck on sorting through all the data to the point that it takes them forever to make a decision -- whereas Te-doms will use the "relevant" data only and not want to "waste time" with the rest. While both types of T-dom will want to have sufficient information before making a decision, Ti-doms have a much higher standard for what constitutes "sufficient", to the point that productivity is lost.
    Ok I see what you mean. Yeah, I agree with that. What I thought that you were trying to say was that Te doms often make decisions without doing any research at all, and I knew that was bullshit. However, I agree that because Te doms are all about efficiency, they often will make decisions much more quickly than Ti users, because it is more efficient and wastes less time.

    ^ Sounds ENTP.
    Yeah, I agree that does sound more ENTP.

  3. #43
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    One thing that I don't relate to with most ENTP's is that they don't really do much research to solve problems though. They seem to figure out the problem's solution in their head. It seems as though when you reach outside of your own brain into the external world to consult resources, that you are using Te doesn't it? I do a lot of research in problem solving, and often consult experts.
    Research isn't really Te, actually. Logical organizing of external information would be Te, but research itself is pretty Ne/Si.

    You sound pretty solidly ENTP to me as well. I don't pick up ENFP from your video.

  4. #44
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Eric B @skylights @EJCC

    There are a few things that sort of put me on the fence between ENFP and ENTP though...

    1. I can read other people people like books, but I can't read myself well or know myself well at all. It's like I have X ray vision for other people's personalities but trying to see through myself is like trying to see through a tin wall. This sounds more ENTP. It seems more ENFP's would know themselves better.

    2. I'm very comfortable venting and expressing my emotions. Also, I've found that women especially will tell me that I am a great listener. I've noticed that most Ti users aren't the easiest people to talk to about problems with. I've noticed that when venting emotions to ENTP's, their Ti will want to focus on solving the problem rather than comforting your feelings. Whereas the ENFP will be more focused on comforting you emotionally than solving the problem. I seem to be more focused on comforting their emotions which seems more ENFP.

    3. Elfboy and I often times like to debate ideas when we converse over the phone. When we are at a stalemate over an idea, we often will make a thread on the issue and see what the opinion is of the people of this site, to confirm which of us is right. This seems more like a Te style (agreed upon logic system than a Ti internal based logical system).

    4. I could see both the Ti and Fi user both liking mbti, but for different reasons. I could see the Ti user liking MBTI because they see themselves objectively like a computer. The Ti user would want to understand MBTI to figure out how they work, almost like tearing apart a machine to see it's inter-mechanics. The Fi users are more like "Chicken Noodle Soup for the Soul" mother fuckers, and would want to study the mbti for more reasons of personal growth. I'm not sure what my reason is, but it seems like it is to understand myself more.

    EDIT: Yes, Eric B, I have had to do several APA style research papers, and they seemed Te as fuck.

  5. #45
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    2. I'm very comfortable venting and expressing my emotions. Also, I've found that women especially will tell me that I am a great listener. I've noticed that most Ti users aren't the easiest people to talk to about problems with. I've noticed that when venting emotions to ENTP's, their Ti will want to focus on solving the problem rather than comforting your feelings. Whereas the ENFP will be more focused on comforting you emotionally than solving the problem. I seem to be more focused on comforting their emotions which seems more ENFP.
    In your case, it seems to be a more developed (than these other ENTP's you mention) tertiary Fe. This of course will be stronger than for a Ti dom. with inferior Fe.
    And it seems totally object-oriented (as shown in your first point, where you're good at knowing others more than yourself). An ENFP would go inward as the source of his comforting, which requires being more in tune with one's own inner states.
    3. Elfboy and I often times like to debate ideas when we converse over the phone. When we are at a stalemate over an idea, we often will make a thread on the issue and see what the opinion is of the people of this site, to confirm which of us is right. This seems more like a Te style (agreed upon logic system than a Ti internal based logical system).
    Ithink that would just be common dom. Ne. You toss around these ideas, then then go to the outer world to see what others think. You're not actually making a logical decision at that point. (You've already made it, and don't agree, but are simply trying to confirm it).
    4. I could see both the Ti and Fi user both liking mbti, but for different reasons. I could see the Ti user liking MBTI because they see themselves objectively like a computer. The Ti user would want to understand MBTI to figure out how they work, almost like tearing apart a machine to see it's inter-mechanics. The Fi users are more like "Chicken Noodle Soup for the Soul" mother fuckers, and would want to study the mbti for more reasons of personal growth. I'm not sure what my reason is, but it seems like it is to understand myself more.
    A non-Fi can try to understand himself; and the whole "computer/mechanics" thing is a bit of an overgeneralization. And it's not completely either/or. (Dissecting yourself technically like a machine could still be the way you seek to "understand yourself"). While perhaps "chicken soup for the soul" might capture the Fi perspective, all trying to understand onesself doesn't fall into that sort of thing. (Do you really feel that is how you're approaching the theory?)
    Life circumstances could have simply brought you to a place where you want to use it to understand yourself. Perhaps just maturity (Realizing that ego's logical perspective is not the solution for everything).
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  6. #46
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Eric B

    In your case, it seems to be a more developed (than these other ENTP's you mention) tertiary Fe. This of course will be stronger than for a Ti dom. with inferior Fe.
    And it seems totally object-oriented (as shown in your first point, where you're good at knowing others more than yourself). An ENFP would go inward as the source of his comforting, which requires being more in tune with one's own inner states.
    So the fact that I'm going outward points to Fe?
    Ithink that would just be common dom. Ne. You toss around these ideas, then then go to the outer world to see what others think. You're not actually making a logical decision at that point. (You've already made it, and don't agree, but are simply trying to confirm it).
    Makes sense.

    A non-Fi can try to understand himself; and the whole "computer/mechanics" thing is a bit of an overgeneralization. And it's not completely either/or. (Dissecting yourself technically like a machine could still be the way you seek to "understand yourself"). While perhaps "chicken soup for the soul" might capture the Fi perspective, all trying to understand onesself doesn't fall into that sort of thing. (Do you really feel that is how you're approaching the theory?)
    Life circumstances could have simply brought you to a place where you want to use it to understand yourself. Perhaps just maturity (Realizing that ego's logical perspective is not the solution for everything).
    I'm not doing that great mentally right now, so I use the theory to better myself mentally. I also enjoy reading it to understand how others work. I notice that a big difference between myself and Elfboy is that things can make pretty good sense but not be 100% clear and he's fine with it. To me, everything must fit together perfect like a puzzle piece.

  7. #47
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Yes, that's the N + Ti perspective. For N + F, it's not the clarity, but more the personal usefulness of the theory.
    And the outward turning is what makes the function extraverted.
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  8. #48
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Since you asked for my input: I agree 100% with @Eric B.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    This sounds sort of akin to rationalism vs. empiricism. Rationalism seems sort of Ti, and empiricism seems sort of Te.
    and yet we just saw 3 NTPs gathering and building on empirical sources to figure things out throughout a discussion

    were we all typed incorrectly? i doubt it.
    did we not use our Ti? yes, yes we did.

    real people outside of personality pages will go for internal logic or empirical evidence depending on the situation.

    all other metaphors seem to have the same failing:
    people switch between "bottom up" (Ti) and "top down" (Te) approaches.
    people switch between deductive (Ti) and inductive (Te) reasoning all the time.
    did i mention the "fact checking" trait? i think both sides have made the claims to that...

    the metaphors break down the moment you apply them to any real person... and yet, it would clearly be incorrect to say that the personality differences between TPs and TJs aren't there: we see them in people all around us. even if people do all of the above, there are clearly different intellectual habits built over time, different preferences, even different levels of enjoyment from different kinds of intellectual activities, and similarities on all those levels do indeed seem to center around two dots in the possible-mindspace, each packed with personality traits that have nothing to do with discussions and arguing styles at all.

    so what is it?

    here's my bet so far:
    it's not that Te people are exploring information differently, it's that they aren't really exploring information in the first place, they are using the information.

    they carry an internal backpack of what constitutes themselves: what they want, what they deem right, how they would like things to be - essentially their Fi - and not being able to see it out there in the real world is a source of cognitive dissonance for them - the stressful wedge between their internal world and the outside world - so they walk through life looking for ways to unpack that backpack. they use their logic as a pathfinding system, making a map of how to go from A to Z. they are more prone to empirical evidence not because they can't see inconsistencies or fallacies, but because empirical evidence is a lot more useful when one is making a mental map in which you plan to walk on.

    Ti people? we don't have that backpack to unload, instead we absorb information, and the resulting stressful wedge between our internal world and the outside world - the cognitive dissonance we seek to resolve - stems directly from our own lack of understanding the information we absorb. this is why we explore it, ask dozen questions and when each is answered ask a dozen more, we play around with the information, poke it, feel out it's shape & experiment with it, forming a better definition of it, stretch it to opposite ends and then push them to collide with each other to find out the inconsistencies. we're the ones pushing the red button for no reason other than finding out what it does. it's not that the logic is mechanically different, it's a logical thinking that is trained to satisfy a different sort of need, a different form of cognitive dissonance.
    Last edited by Society; 05-12-2013 at 10:37 PM.

  10. #50
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Yes, that's the N + Ti perspective. For N + F, it's not the clarity, but more the personal usefulness of the theory.
    And the outward turning is what makes the function extraverted.
    Is it because Ti goes for precision so much? Also, I am assuming that things must make 100% clear sense to you as well with no holes in between?

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Since you asked for my input: I agree 100% with Eric B
    Yeah, it looks like both the NTP's and the NFP's, and even the ESTJ's agree that I'm ENTP. I must really be ENTP, lol

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