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  1. #31
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decrescendo View Post
    I was thinking of children with mental retardation. I've seen plenty of obvious intuitives with aspergers and autism.

    (was asking about this bc my brother has a disorder that caused severe retardation and I'm trying to figure out whether he could be intuitive...but what Starry said suggested otherwise)

    Wait whoa what? I know it's been a while but... well, let's take a look. First your OP...


    Quote Originally Posted by decrescendo View Post
    I've heard people suggest that those with bipolar disorder, autism, etc. may be "un-typable," and I'm wondering what others' thoughts are on emotional/cognitive disorders and typology in general.

    For example, my brother has a chromosomal disorder causing serious physical, cognitive, and behavioral issues. He's considered mentally retarded and based on the typical MBTI tests and descriptions, his cognitive limitations place him in the S camp. I know that sensors can be extremely intelligent and that intuitors aren't necessarily bright. It's just that if he's an intuitor, it certainly manifests differently in him than in those of higher intellectual ability. Very few (if any) people I've met with cognitive handicaps are interested in what most would consider "abstract theory," a trait typically associated with Ns. Also, what little I've read (it was only recently identified) seems to point to a correlation between xSFx and my brother's disorder.

    Now...here's what I wrote...


    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I don't have any answers that pertain to your question but this^^^ I would not even remotely sign off on that. I see a lot of iNtuitives that seemingly imagine the iNtuitive mind to be...oh say...'just like the Sensor mind - but evolved' <--when everything I've read suggests the opposite is true. The best way I can explain the various texts would be to say we are all born iNtuitives and as time goes on our brains become more and more specialized...but for whatever reason that process is halted in the iNtuitive. Basically, an iNtuitive is an adult making use of a brain that was only meant to take them through the first few years of life.

    ...if I was forced to choose I would say that 'disorders' would be correlated with N.

    How does all of the above end-up being this below?


    Quote Originally Posted by decrescendo View Post
    I was thinking of children with mental retardation. I've seen plenty of obvious intuitives with aspergers and autism.

    (was asking about this bc my brother has a disorder that caused severe retardation and I'm trying to figure out whether he could be intuitive...but what Starry said suggested otherwise)

    With regards to these questions:

    so how do you identify a preference for intuition in an individual who appears to be incapable of understanding or expressing abstract thought?
    Well, first, I don't ever find myself attempting to (scientifically) measure anyone for intuition let alone individuals that 'appear incapable of understanding or expressing abstract thought.' I am well aware of the fact, however, that an inability to measure something doesn't not mean it doesn't exist. Or in this example...being unable to measure abstract thought does not rule out the possibility that abstract thought is still taking place.


    and in response to the bolded: what about people who never had the normal childhood brain, who were born without that intuitive foundation?
    I don't know what kind of 'not normal childhood brain' you're speaking of...but that was my entire point. The intuitive mind is a 'not normal childhood brain.' <--Not saying that's *bad*...just saying that because the intuitive brain is...for lack of a better word...already abnormal... I betcha a million dolla (okay maybe like two dollars)... things like mental illness, brain disorders...whatever...will be correlated with N.

  2. #32
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    I was diagnosed with Aspergers and ADHD a week after my father died because I couldn't concentrate and I appeared insensitive to others. I have to say, though, that I now feel like Aspergers doesn't fit me at all and that ADHD is blown way out of proportion to make people like me fit into ESTJ culture. Of course, I DO have trouble staying focused, but that is all. I feel deep empathy for others, and I love to talk…even though I stutter horribly at times. I love writing fiction.

    I know that ADHD is at least partially real, but fitting the individual to society is not the way to treat it. letting the individual focus on their strengths and perhaps bring something new to the world should come first. If things don't improve, THEN holistic methods could be used. Drugs are the third most acceptable, but likely most people will feel better before they get to that stage.

  3. #33
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    What's interesting to me is, while I've never heard of synesthetes, ADD & ADHD are now being described as having the same origins - a condition I've been told I have. Yet it is a confusing thing to know what is what when the symptoms of ADD seem strangely indistinguishable from the MBTI of the ENxP.
    I find that interesting, as well.

  4. #34
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychological Types - C. G. Jung.
    The fact that often in their earliest years children display an unmistakable typical attitude forces us to assume that it cannot possibly be the struggle for existence, as it is generally understood, which constitutes the compelling factor in favour of a definite attitude. We might, however, demur, and indeed with cogency, that even the tiny infant, the very babe at the breast, has already an unconscious psychological adaptation to perform, inasmuch as the special character of the maternal influence leads to specific reactions in the child. This argument, though appealing to incontestable facts, has none the less to yield before the equally unarguable fact that two children of the same mother may at a very early age exhibit opposite types, without the smallest accompanying change in the attitude of the mother. Although nothing would induce me to underestimate the well-nigh incalculable importance of parental influence, this experience compels me to conclude that the decisive factor must be looked for in the disposition of the child. The fact that, in spite of the greatest possible similarity of external conditions, one child will assume this type while another that, must, of course, in the last resort he ascribed to individual disposition. Naturally in saying this I only refer to those cases which occur under normal conditions. Under abnormal conditions, i.e. when there is an extreme and, therefore, abnormal attitude in the mother, the children can also be coerced into a relatively similar attitude; but this entails a violation of their individual disposition, which quite possibly would have assumed another type if no abnormal and disturbing external influence had intervened. As a rule, whenever such a falsification of type takes place as a result of external [p. 416] influence, the individual becomes neurotic later, and a cur can successfully be sought only in a development of that attitude which corresponds with the individual's natural way.
    Jung's theory of neurosis.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jung%27...ry_of_neurosis

    Jung's theory of neurosis is based on the premise of a self-regulating psyche composed of tensions between opposing attitudes of the ego and the unconscious. A neurosis is a significant unresolved tension between these contending attitudes. Each neurosis is unique, and different things work in different cases, so no therapeutic method can be arbitrarily applied. Nevertheless, there is a set of cases that Jung especially addressed. Although adjusted well enough to everyday life, the individual has lost a fulfilling sense of meaning and purpose, and has no living religious belief to which to turn. There seems to be no readily apparent way to set matters right. In these cases, Jung turned to ongoing symbolic communication from the unconscious in the form of dreams and visions.

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