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  1. #31
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    They arent, not quite imo, each pair is the same cognitive mechanism used in apposing ways.

    I also think there is an internal repression mechanism involved in the process of repressing the processing of one rather then the other, a resolvable one.
    See, I don't see that either. To me, the same cognitive mechanism in opposing ways would be Fe/Fi or Se/Si, etc. The same function but different attitude.

    I certainly think the opposition is resolvable, but I tend to see the aux making the bridge. The inferior can be incorporated to a limited degree successfully without being a threat to stability because it's worked around with the aux. That's often what you see in people too - developing the inferior often just means dealing with the areas its called for & using it to a limited degree that doesn't eclipse the ego.

    I just thought more about your labels... the way you describe the J processes sounds like a P perspective, the way it might be experienced when not dominant, & that's part of what's weird about it to me.

    To me, Ti/Fe would be constructing & Fi/Te molding. Both groups are structuring reality in some way. "Reflecting" seems a bizarre word for that, unless you mean some kind of mirroring, but even that seems odd.

    I don't think the groupings themselves are a wrong way to see things, but I think the names could be better, that's all.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  2. #32
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    I think EF, ET, IT, and IF makes some sense, because it seems like a basic way to group them, and it wouldn't be hard to tell which one someone falls into. I tend to like other IF's. I can't think of good names for them, though.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Actually, no; for the introverts, Ji and Pi are what make them introverted, but they are accompanied by Je and Pe (in the auxiliary slot), which are what determine J/P. So it's IP: aux Pe; IJ: aux Je. Now, J and P match, but e/i are reversed. For introverts, it's it's mixed up because of J/P's definition as preferred extraverted function. But I know you don't believe this in favor of Jung's dominant function focus.

    Another useful set of groupings are the Interaction Styles, but they are even more complicated as far as the type code.

    EST/ENJ: In Charge
    ESF/ENP: Get Things Going
    IST/INJ: Chart the Course
    ISF/INP: Behind the Scenes

    These are basically the "social" temperaments. Like the ones you would get on the humour quizzes, and also, Social Styles, DISC, CPI, etc.

    They are like this, because the social temperaments are basically "blind" to S/N. Social temperament is E/I and people/task (which comes to be called "informing/directing" in this model). S/N is tied to the other area of temperament; the conative (i.e. Keirsey, via Plato, Kant, Kretschmer).

    So S/N end up denoting different "rules" for defining the people/task factor.
    For N's, it's J/P, so it works like the earlier mentioned groups: EJ, EP, IJ, IP. (These are also known as the "sociability temperaments").
    For S's, it's T/F, so the groups are ET, EF, IT, IF. These are groups I always thought made some sense, though they're hardly ever mentioned.

    So Interaction styles are like a combination of these two letter groups. The result: T and J end up more "task focused", and F and P are more "people focused".
    You didn't understand my objection. She was using socionics terminology but mixed it up. EP = Pe lead, IP = Pi lead, IJ = Ji lead, EJ = Je lead. The rest is just ramble that's pretty irrelevant to my point.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  4. #34
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I looked for a context, but missed where she said "the way Jung groups". I'm not sure whether she was aware of Jung's "dominant function" notation. Jung didn't use J/P, he used "rational/irrational type", and Socionics uses lowercase j/p (which I think was a mistake, in causing confusion with MBTI, but that's another topic).

    And the rest is not ramble, and it wasn't intended to relate to your point.
    It's just another idea of type grouping, (another point) that I had sat down to post anyway.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member madhatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    She was using socionics terminology but mixed it up. EP = Pe lead, IP = Pi lead, IJ = Ji lead, EJ = Je lead.
    What? I'm confused. Where was she using socionics terminology?

  6. #36
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
    What? I'm confused. Where was she using socionics terminology?
    Referring types to EP, IJ and so on temperaments are socionics groupings. Jung never used such terminology as far as I know.

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  7. #37
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    TJ's, FJ's, TP's and FP's

  8. #38
    Senior Member madhatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    Referring types to EP, IJ and so on temperaments are socionics groupings. Jung never used such terminology as far as I know.
    Jung did not use those specific letters, no.

    But use of EP, IJ, IP and EJ is not exclusive to Socionics. I've seen them most often used in JCF literature.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
    Jung did not use those specific letters, no.

    But use of EP, IJ, IP and EJ is not exclusive to Socionics. I've seen them most often used in JCF literature.
    Where else?

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  10. #40
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Let me think. If I wanted to be funny, I'd choose.. highly irregular system of

    E-something for those who are so damned loud without any content.. who's most representative of that kind of E? Probably ExxP
    J-something for those asshats who make our life miserable. Couldn't they just stop regulating everything for gods sake. xSxJ
    T-something for those detached sons of bitches who just explain and philosophize everything away and walk through everything like it didn't matter a damned thing. INTP, ENTJ,INTJ,ISTP
    F-or-something-something for those goddamned somethings who are so terrible because they're terribleness is accunated by their types of being one of ENFJ,INFP,ISFP or INFJ.

    Oh wait, INFJ aren't terrible.

    Oh wait again, they are. Sometimes. So it's a good system. Keep it and prosper.

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