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  1. #11
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    Funny how "type" here would seem to correlate very closely with socio-economic background. A flaw in the model?

  2. #12
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Funny how "type" here would seem to correlate very closely with socio-economic background. A flaw in the model?
    I have no idea what you are talking about. Could you be more specific?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    I have no idea what you are talking about. Could you be more specific?
    Well occupation, likelihood of going to prison etc., are very highly correlated with socio-economic background. But here you have attempted to explain it by MBTI. So I would suggest that the explanations can't both be true, and that strong evidence exists for one but not the other.

  4. #14
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Well occupation, likelihood of going to prison etc., are very highly correlated with socio-economic background. But here you have attempted to explain it by MBTI. So I would suggest that the explanations can't both be true, and that strong evidence exists for one but not the other.
    I could see how both could be true. Let's say you're a ESTP from the projects. Both of these things can be risk factors for imprisonment. An well-off ESTP may be more likely to become one of the more self-actualized professions, but also may wind up in a ne'er-do-well role. Personally I went to a very well-off high school and I knew quite a few ESTP males who got subpar grades and tended to act out, then went off into the military and came back much more upstanding.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Funny how "type" here would seem to correlate very closely with socio-economic background. A flaw in the model?

    Good observation, it's something I've been thinking about and I didn't catch it here in these type descriptions. I'm not sure how to expound on the thought though...


    I personally chalk it up to absent critical analysis from typists rather than inherent hang-ups to the system, people kind of broad stroking their perceptions across a spectrum of data without much true introspection. For example, immediately linking "sensor = immediate environment = inability to conceptualize = sports = prison". I think a lot of people can't get past "they're all easy to correlate so it must be true".


    Kind of like how blacks are jailed in the US at an alarming rate in relation to whites. Given this data, it's easy to correlate that blacks commit more crimes than whites do, but further analysis shows some very damning evidence about the status of our justice system as a whole. The further you dig, the truer to the heart of the cause you come, rather than some surface level probing. Typology is much the same. Inherent to the descriptions are connotations that simply aren't true upon further analysis and rationale.

  6. #16
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    There's really no lack of critical analysis, just an obvious but politically incorrect truth. ESTPs are the classic thrill-seeking type, and thrill seekers tend to get in trouble at a higher rate. That's all you need to know, QED. We shouldn't turn this into a discussion about socioeconomics. That's a copout. It is what people do when they want to sound smart for cheap, because it is politically correct and easy to type cloud-high BS that sounds like it could be intelligent. Do what I did in the OP - demonstrate your knowledge and command of the cognitive processes that make up this system. If your knowledge of them is superior to mine, I would absolutely love to hear your analysis. If you want to just take snipes and get moralistic about it, though, I'm not interested.

  7. #17
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Also, you're the one who made the "sports = prison" comment, not me. That's pretty bigoted, jontherobot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    There's really no lack of critical analysis, just an obvious but politically incorrect truth. ESTPs are the classic thrill-seeking type, and thrill seekers tend to get in trouble at a higher rate. That's all you need to know, QED. We shouldn't turn this into a discussion about socioeconomics. That's a copout. It is what people do when they want to sound smart for cheap, because it is politically correct and easy to type cloud-high BS that sounds like it could be intelligent. Do what I did in the OP - demonstrate your knowledge and command of the cognitive processes that make up this system. If your knowledge of them is superior to mine, I would absolutely love to hear your analysis. If you want to just take snipes and get moralistic about it, though, I'm not interested.

    I have provided much input throughout my tenure on the site, you are welcome to research my posting history and provide critique to any claims I've made, if you so wish.


    My best friend is ESTP, both a lawyer from one of the best schools in the globe and one of the most lawful persons I know. Your deductive logic is sorely lacking; I don't know what else you want to hear.

  9. #19
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    There's some pretty good stuff there, but a good part of the descriptions look like wild guesses. Seems like you need to increase the your sample size for most types, specially the Fs.

    That said, I rather liked the INTP description. Otoh, the ESTJ and the Feeling types descriptions were fairly poor.

    "ESFJ - weddings" Right, but what about the rest of the time?

    "ESTJ - sports" My ESTJ father seems to just care about work and giving orders.

    "INFJ - pastors, missionaires, activists, Gandhi" Don't they usually have uh, let's say, regular occupations?
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    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  10. #20
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    I have provided much input throughout my tenure on the site, you are welcome to research my posting history and provide critique to any claims I've made, if you so wish.
    Then don't post in this thread? What do I care about your tenure on this site? That's great, but it doesn't move things forward here and now.

    My best friend is ESTP, both a lawyer from one of the best schools in the globe and one of the most lawful persons I know. Your deductive logic is sorely lacking; I don't know what else you want to hear.
    Your logic is lacking. Rather, it is absent. What you've done is provided an anecdote, which doesn't really prove or disprove anything. You should offer a coherent functional analysis of how you've typed your friend as an ESTP and what it is about ESTPs that made this person in particular a strong candidate for the role of a lawyer, especially if you see him as the rule and not the exception, because as I've already made plain, I am stereotyping and there is ample room for exception.

    What I'm getting at is this: when we read type descriptions, we seldom if ever see "lawyer" as one of the common professions for ESTP. To use this system at all requires generalities - just because you can think of exceptions doesn't disprove anything.

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