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  1. #1
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Default For people that don't "believe in functions"

    I think I get it. We can't prove that there's actually a "Ti mechanism" that processes after a "Ne mechanism". We could sum up the critics by saying "the map is not the territory". Functions are abstractions. Etc etc

    But do we deny that this sort of a definitions list: TPs, FPs, TJs, FJs creates a pretty compelling arguement for judging function descriptions having some legitamacy?

    TJs tend to plan things and use structured methodical ahead of time thinking throughout their lives.

    TPs tend to find the holistic logic of a situation ("let me break it down for you") and leverage this information as they see fit.

    FJs tend to plan things and use structured methodical ahead of time thinking according to how "the audience" is supposed to react.

    FPs tend to find the holistic "how does this make ME feel" logic of a situation and leverage this information as they see fit.

    They aren't function definitions. Theres no functions voodoo. They are completely pulled from the obsevation of overlapping two of the four dichotomies. ...and yet, they stand in for function definitions pretty **** well. What say you function doubters?

  2. #2
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    If you believe in it you will see it.

  3. #3
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    The function are real alright (we have brain scans), but anything short of an EEG, and we run the risk of chronic mistypings of other people, all in assumptions that we just 'gaze inside into their functions'.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venom View Post
    [People who tend to plan things and use structured methodical ahead of time thinking throughout their lives] tend to plan things and use structured methodical ahead of time thinking throughout their lives.
    ... and so on.

  5. #5
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    The function are real alright (we have brain scans), but anything short of an EEG, and we run the risk of chronic mistypings of other people, all in assumptions that we just 'gaze inside into their functions'.
    We do have brain scans and the scans indeed show different areas of the brain and their activity. But nowhere is there an Ni lobe or a Te cortex.

    As @Venom pointed out the terms are merely abstractions designed to capture an observed pattern. The problem with this, though, is that the only way to prove the pattern is to get others to see it.

    This idea Venom put forward doesn't really solve this issue either, since it still assumes the structure of the dichotomies to be inherent without any actual evidence beyond observation. And so long as typology hides in the realm of shared observation as proof, it can never wholly be taken seriously, or put to good use.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venom View Post
    They are completely pulled from the obsevation of overlapping two of the four dichotomies.
    excellent post, and you can extend this to NJs/SJs/SPs/NPs (you probably should - for a better system view).

    BUT, you are still lacking any non-theoretical support that:
    1. that I/E behavior means the corresponding I/E function dominance
    2. that the dom/aux function pull the corresponding tert/inf functions
    3. that function loops provide for likely explanations to exception
    4. the whole shaningans with shadow functions

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