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  1. #11
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    I feel that based on the few posts I've seen Viktor write, he just seems like a try-hard when it comes to thinking outside the box. Ultimately, typology is no different than any other standard or measurement we use to understand, contrast and compare other people. The labels are ultimately no different than saying that man is white, that man is black and that man is Carribean. They simply describe certain observable traits but it is ultimately up to us to decide how we use these descriptors (labels etc.). A person could know zero about typology but be an incredible misogynist at work because he thinks women are of lesser worth, just like someone who has taken an online MBTI test has gotten the impression that sensors are more stupid than intuitives. The answer is thus simple - labels, and we all operate with them even outside typology, help us categorize people around us but the value we attach to those categorizations depends on the person. The value is not universal.

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  2. #12
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    My impression is that people tend to have a lot of social fears because of past hurts. There is a deep drive to avoid similar hurts in the future, and so by categorizing the people who caused hurt, we think we can avoid similar hurts in the future by avoiding others in the same category. That approach creates a terrible mess in comprehension and communication and absolutely builds walls. The human mind is so skilled at confirmation bias, that we think our points are proven, that our prejudices are reasoned. I don't know if people can get past that because it tends to be the modus operandi of most.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #13
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    My impression is that people tend to have a lot of social fears because of past hurts. There is a deep drive to avoid similar hurts in the future, and so by categorizing the people who caused hurt, we think we can avoid similar hurts in the future by avoiding others in the same category. That approach creates a terrible mess in comprehension and communication and absolutely builds walls. The human mind is so skilled at confirmation bias, that we think our points are proven, that our prejudices are reasoned. I don't know if people can get past that because it tends to be the modus operandi of most.
    It's easy to forget to do, but I think that you can train yourself to intentionally try to prove the opposite (or if not a binary, then prove something coming from another angle), which is something that you have to decide to do before you start (or even during) information gathering.


    The big thing I notice with typology of any kind, not just MBTI but forming any group identity is in-group and out-group biases. There is a natural tendency to see people in your group in a more favorable light and people outside of it in a less favorable one, which can readily become a dangerous thing (but also fosters a sort of group cohesion).


    Also, I think what you're saying about social fears makes sense, but it begs the question: what if the category of "avoidables" is an accurate one? Often people make categories that don't match up with reality. A mean person was wearing a red dress, so you avoid people wearing red dresses - doesn't make sense. And then confirmation bias kicks in and people look for examples of mean people who wear red dresses and they find them. And you'd have to be more specific about them being "mean". Maybe you didn't realize you were doing something to them which elicited that response. Then again, it seems pretty reasonable that if you identify that some people aren't just "mean" (they are really just different than you, more direct) but are "abusive", it makes sense that you try and avoid these people. Not psychologically avoid that they exist (denial), but proximity/life avoid.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    It's easy to forget to do, but I think that you can train yourself to intentionally try to prove the opposite (or if not a binary, then prove something coming from another angle), which is something that you have to decide to do before you start (or even during) information gathering.


    The big thing I notice with typology of any kind, not just MBTI but forming any group identity is in-group and out-group biases. There is a natural tendency to see people in your group in a more favorable light and people outside of it in a less favorable one, which can readily become a dangerous thing (but also fosters a sort of group cohesion).
    I think this is true with any group identity, though. It's just how basic human psychology works.

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  5. #15
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    I think this is true with any group identity, though. It's just how basic human psychology works.
    Uh, yeah, that's what I said?

    Quote Originally Posted by me
    The big thing I notice with typology of any kind, not just MBTI but forming any group identity is in-group and out-group biases....
    Extending the term typology to mean "any grouping system".
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  6. #16
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    It builds walls when people believe it's more important than it actually is.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    Uh, yeah, that's what I said?
    Yes, but in the context of typology. I simply expanded and generalized the statement. I thought the expansion was unclear? Or at least I didn't pick it up as such.

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  8. #18
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    It's all just guesses and observations. But although I say that, I would say there is some legitimacy to identifying patterns in human behaviour.

    The difficulty is....having to pull something from outside of common human perception in order to identify that which doesn't yet have definition or words, but for some, this most definitely exists. This is the issue Jung had and spent most of his life trying to understand and grasp.

    It could be that psychological types is an unfinished vision in some sense. Could be there is another stage for others to flesh out.

    However...there will always be people who want to delve that little bit deeper, to dive into the depths of what lies behind the eyes. It's a need to understand and not just for understandings sake....also for caring. Although that depends upon motive.

    There are still discrepancies that cannot yet be answered empirically as well, for example the differences between individuals from the same nurture and nature are often unexplained even in modern psychology.

    Where that gap lies there shall always be someone wishing to fill it up. If not MBTI then something else.

    It can be called a cult, a childish belief system that can trap a person from true self-awareness. But even so at its core lies a strong grain of truth, this is humanity and you cannot keep the boot on it's neck forever.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  9. #19
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Maybe. I'm somewhat proned to collectivize people anyways. Typology is mostly a handy way to keep track of the categories.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  10. #20
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    Builds bridges when studied for an hour or so. Builds walls when studied for a year or more.

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