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  1. #1
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    Default Are Tertiary/Inferior or Shadow Functions generally less developed?

    Since my weakest function is Si, and I don't know if that's because I'm Si tertiary/inferior, or if Si would be one of my shadow functions.

    Some people also have tried to tell me they think I'm in a dom/tert TiNi loop, but if tertiary and inferior functions are generally not as developed, how could that be?

    Feel free to talk about your own function orders and your experiences with them, and even what you have observed and theorized about in others as well.

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    You're inferior isn't the weakest function... it is in fact the fourth strongest. All your shadow functions are weaker and used less, and thus more unconscious in the psyche. You don't need much use of shadow functions normally, because the top four are the preferences that cover everything that you need for most of your life. Your inferior though, is suppressed because it is directly opposed to the dominant, but the two are completely necessary for each other.

    If you are unhealthy, or in life conditions in which it would restrict the use of the auxiliary, one may begin using the tertiary instead -- especially as it and the dominant are both the same orientation. But it is not healthy because for the best growth, one needs adequate use of both extra- and introverted functions. Just because the tertiary is less developed in general, doesn't mean it won't be used if the conditions call for it. But it won't be used in as much of a 'mature' way as dom and aux; which is another reason why it is bad to be in a tertiary loop.

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    So far, I've thought of three ways to derive function order. We'll use ESFJ's as an example:


    Traditional function order:

    Fe/Si/Ne/Ti/Fi/Se/Ni/Te

    Shadow function order:

    Fe/Fi/Si/Se/Ne/Ni/Ti/Te

    Order I made up I haven't named yet:

    Fe/Te/Si/Ni/Ne/Se/Ti/Fi


    If you look at the first two derivations, you can see Te always comes last theoretically: it can be facilely stated ESFJ's are poor utilizers of Te. I would argue that they channel their Te use through an Fe medium, likely making some of the best interpersonal team builders around. It's also been noted in studies that Ti-doms have pretty good Fi use, and that is also represented in my equation.

    I don't know how far down the line this logic extends, I haven't given it all much thought. I know Socionics has theories on the functions that are valued and used, valued but not used, not valued but used, and not valued and not used. I wonder if I should cross reference these against this order I devised.

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    inferior is least developed out of all the four functions you use
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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    Your weakest function is your 8th function.
    I really like cats and food.

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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    inferior is least developed out of all the four functions you use
    So we don't use 4 of the 8 functions?

    So an INTP never uses Te, Ni, Se, or Fi?

    Or an ESFP never uses Si, Fe, Ti, or Ne?

    They may not use them very well or be aware they are using them but it's hard to imagine any type not ever using certain functions. How does one get by in life if any of the 8 cognitive functions is totally absent?
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    My weakest function is probably Ti (and fact it usually is on functions tests, and I just KNOW it is from interacting with xxTPs and my understanding of Ti) and I know it's a shadow function for me.

    If Si is that far down for you, I'd guess you to be some kind of NJ, because an SP can still show some Opposing Personality Complex and Critical Parent with the first two shadow functions with Si.

    I tend to think of Si as my Critical Parent function "I am better at remembering this correctly than you are." "I'M the authority on factual data, and you have dwelled too much on the past and should move on." [I feel bad about the past, and project it onto you]

    I do think it's interesting, still, that ENFPs are supposed to like idealizing using Si with the Anima or Animus as a way of enjoying nostalgia together (I can tell you I have an almost pathological attachment to the 1980s, and have been involved in some way with more than one SJ who loved the 80s in one way or another as much as I did, in cultural artistic form via music or movies or even "ooh we had this candy when we were kids," for example my ESFJ ex used to actually go out and buy me Blow Pops, and the candy he liked and he got us packs of Garbage Pail Kids and had them collected in an album like baseball cards, and we'd sit and watch Vh1 "I Love the 80s" together eating our candy, then watch some 70s/80s horror movies, and just be totally so happy together doing that).

    But I think I use far too much sensing to be an ENFP, it's not rejected enough in me, it doesn't make sense, it kept troubling me when I thought I was ENFP, especially since my writing has such an earthy quality and I've always been really good with sensory detail.

    I've actually come up on functions tests as Fi/Si before, but other times Se will be higher, so it really depends on the test.

    I also have a really good grasp of Ni, much too well for it to be a shadow function, I'm pretty sure, but not strong enough for it to be my dom or aux, and I've had Ni dom types confirm that I am indeed talking about Ni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    So we don't use 4 of the 8 functions?

    So an INTP never uses Te, Ni, Se, or Fi?

    Or an ESFP never uses Si, Fe, Ti, or Ne?

    They may not use them very well or be aware they are using them but it's hard to imagine any type not ever using certain functions. How does one get by in life if any of the 8 cognitive functions is totally absent?
    Ti and Te for example are not two different function, T is the function E and I attitudes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jung Psychological types
    Sensation establishes what is actually present, thinking enables us to recognize its meaning, feeling tells us its value, and intuition points to possibilities as to whence it came and whither it is going in a given situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jung lexicon
    Besides the primary function, there is often a second, and sometimes a third, auxiliary function that exerts a co-determining influence on consciousness. This is always one whose nature, rational or irrational, is different from the primary function.

    Nowadays the other auxiliary function is caller tertiary.

    Extraversion and introversion are attitudes, attitude means readiness of the psyche to react in a certain way.

    Quote Originally Posted by psychological types, Si
    The subjective factor of sensation is essentially the same as in the other functions already spoken of. It is an unconscious disposition, which alters the sense-perception at its very source, thus depriving it of the character of a purely objective influence. The ascendancy of the subjective factor occasionally achieves a complete suppression of the mere influence of the object; but none the less sensation remains sensation, although it has come to be a perception of the subjective factor, and the effect of the object has sunk to the level of a mere stimulant. Introverted sensation develops in accordance with this subjective direction. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus. Subjective perception differs remarkably from the objective. It is either not found at all in the object, or, at most, merely suggested by it; it can, however, be similar to the sensation of other men, although not immediately derived from the objective behaviour of things.
    Quote Originally Posted by psychological types, Se
    Sensation, in the extraverted attitude, is most definitely conditioned by the object. In the extraverted attitude this subjective share of sensation, in so far as its conscious application is concerned, is either inhibited or repressed. It is, however, only concrete, sensuously perceived objects or processes which excite sensations in the extraverted attitude; exclusively those, in fact, which everyone in all times and places would sense as concrete. Hence, the orientation of such an individual corresponds with purely concrete reality.
    = Si and Se are mutually exclusive, because by definition Si goes by the subjective factor and represses the objective and Se goes by the objective. Its the same with 3 other functions and their attitudes.

    And its not just Jung who says this, its also MBTI that uses 4 function model:

    Quote Originally Posted by www.myersbriggs.org
    Type is more than just the sum of the four preferences. The four-letter MBTI® type formula is a shorthand way of telling you about the interaction of your four mental functions and which ones you prefer to use first. This is called type dynamics, and it is an important part of understanding your MBTI® results. Below are some basic facts about type dynamics.

    One preference has the most influence on you. This is called the dominant function.

    The next strongest preference is called the auxiliary function. It is important because it serves to support and balance the dominant.


    The third strongest is the tertiary function.


    One preference is the least strong. This is the fourth function, often called the inferior function.
    This 8 function model is neither MBTI or Jung, even tho its a common misconception on people who read only mixed stuff from internets and dont look at original works. Its just some alternative theory, which obviously contradicts the original theory about what functions and function attitudes are.

    If you have preference for Ti, you mistrust the objective factor in thinking, unless it corresponds with your subjective thoughts and because you mistrust the objective factor, the objective factor cant be your attitude(habitual way of reacting in a certain way). Simple as that.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    = Si and Se are mutually exclusive, because by definition Si goes by the subjective factor and represses the objective and Se goes by the objective. Its the same with 3 other functions and their attitudes.

    ...

    If you have preference for Ti, you mistrust the objective factor in thinking, unless it corresponds with your subjective thoughts and because you mistrust the objective factor, the objective factor cant be your attitude(habitual way of reacting in a certain way). Simple as that.
    When you say they are mutually exclusive, do you mean using them at the same time or all the time? I can use Thinking and Sensing just fine in either attitude but not in both simultaneously.

    This has actually been the main aspect of MBTI I've been studying in the last couple of months. So far it seems a lot less consistent from person to person than the rest of it.
    One example is that my father and I are both ISTPs, and are basically typical in using Ti/Se/Ni/Fe, but we both use Te just fine and Fi about equal to Fe (which isn't all that much), and I can use Si with no problem but cant use Ne worth a damn, and he's the opposite.
    Another is my INFP friend probably has less Fe than anything else, doesn't use Ni and Se very often but when he does he's actually better at it than Ne/Si, and his Thinking function is pretty much undifferentiated as far as I can tell.
    I definitely need more people to study...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jryn1993 View Post
    When you say they are mutually exclusive, do you mean using them at the same time or all the time? I can use Thinking and Sensing just fine in either attitude but not in both simultaneously.

    This has actually been the main aspect of MBTI I've been studying in the last couple of months. So far it seems a lot less consistent from person to person than the rest of it.
    One example is that my father and I are both ISTPs, and are basically typical in using Ti/Se/Ni/Fe, but we both use Te just fine and Fi about equal to Fe (which isn't all that much), and I can use Si with no problem but cant use Ne worth a damn, and he's the opposite.
    Another is my INFP friend probably has less Fe than anything else, doesn't use Ni and Se very often but when he does he's actually better at it than Ne/Si, and his Thinking function is pretty much undifferentiated as far as I can tell.
    I definitely need more people to study...
    You said that you use Te. Te isnt something you use, T is what you use I and E are attitudes towards using thinking. Like i mentioned attitude is habitual and automatic thing, as you probably know because you talk english. Now if you take some really empathetic person for example, his attitude towards people is relating with empathy, instead of anger or hatred. How could his automatic reactions to people be both empathetic and anger? That just doesent make any sense and its the same thing with Te and Ti. Te's attitude towards things in external world is trusting, what is observed is a fact, end of story. Ti on the other hand has an attitude of trusting subjective rationalization over what just seemingly makes sense about external world. How can you both trust your subjective logic and some observed fact at the same time if the external fact happens to contradict your logic? It just makes no sense. What im pretty sure you think equals Te is organizational skills etc. but thats not Te, its just what comes easily out of trusting external facts, but can be done by someone preferring introversion in thinking. There is also such thing as concrete thinking, which is something that Te does and Ti is capable of doing aswell in certain situations when S function is undifferentiated. Basically what it means is to use thinking that is directed by things in external world, in Ti's case its about S and Ti working together, S directing the focus of Ti.

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    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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