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  1. #1
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    Default Emotional Manipulation and Type

    If we were to oversimplify, people would probably say FJs, and ExFPs make the best emotional manipulators? Right? Or that it's somehow related to Fe and Pe?

    Would it be possible for an IxTJ to be a master manipulator of women's emotions? That doesn't seem right, does it?

    It actually seems out of place and very wrong, something someone would expect from an ExFJ or maybe an ESTP?

    Feel free to talk at length about emotional manipulation, because I am at a bit of a loss here as to how someone so uncomfortable with his own feelings, and who has such trouble expressing his deepest emotions, would be relatively proficient at manipulating others at will?

    WHAT IS THAT?

    Someone help me out here, no jokes please.

    And no, the person is not a sociopath, but could be a narcissist.

  2. #2
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    I've been thinking about this, that people can be so proficient at metabolizing their own feelings they are also capable of turning the power outwards.

    My thoughts haven't run exactly congruent to yours, so I don't have all that much to say about it, except that it's a fascinating subject.

    I'd probably place weak Fe users in the upper echelons for that of which you speak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    I've been thinking about this, that people can be so proficient at metabolizing their own feelings they are also capable of turning the power outwards.

    My thoughts haven't run exactly congruent to yours, so I don't have all that much to say about it, except that it's a fascinating subject.

    I'd probably place weak Fe users in the upper echelons for that of which you speak.
    Discomfort with overt display of emotion, but need to have others shine it upon him. An exaggerated "cold" trait, like taking pride in having emotional walls or showing less emotion. But clearly needing a great deal of attention and companionship, and doing sort of magical things in order to obtain it, in very manipulative and indirect ways, and even more amazingly, appearing to have the same or similar affect upon multiple individuals.

    And not necessarily focused on sex; there's a sexual element to it, but it's far far more emotional, the need this person attempts to fulfill and the ways they go about getting them are more emotional than sexual, I'm not really talking about a player or a man whore; more of an emotional whore, though, or someone seeking narcissistic supply at any cost, until the "source" gets too close to his actual underlying feelings.

    I thought tertiary Fi was cut and dried for this person for varying reasons, and he and others agreed, but how would someone with tertiary Fi be able to quietly move people to kinda sorta give him what he needs, in the way he needs it.

    It just doesn't make sense to me how someone so uncomfortable with his own feelings deals so well in emotional currency, but in a distorted and rather black way; and the thing is that it hurts him, on some level it's hurting him to do it, but he keeps doing it.

    Over and over again.

    And I didn't realize JUST how good he was at it until today, though I knew he plays a lot of head games.

  4. #4
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    He sounds lonely, terrified, stuck and (self-)depraved of love, tbh. Somewhere along the line he figured out how to use subtle vulnerability cues to tap into the empathy of others to get what he needs without having to reciprocate so he can save face if things go south instead of face the fear of emotional rejection he apparently has been burned by so much that he outright avoids it.

    He should learn how to a) take rejection not so personally and b) how to balance reciprocation in a way that isnt coming on to strong, doesn't suck him in completely and all at once emotionally speaking, and c) is appropriate to the situation, in order to feel truly emotionally fulfilled.

    Compare it to Voldemort: to stay alive he drinks unicorn blood, but that life becomes a half life.

    He will never feel fully fulfilled this way, but it will quench his immediate needs if only for a moment. And that means that multiple targets give him 'more' while staying safe.


    The short, tl;dr-version: trust issues+ being human= life half lived.


    I'd say all types are capable of this as it is a matter of only accessing a part of the F function and ignoring all the rest there is to that function. Which makes for a highly unbalanced use. F types will discover this part more easily, and can be really adept at exploiting this little loophole. It's a quick fix and easy road to take when you are hurting and need validation.

    But then, depending on their environment and past issues, they *should* be able to access the rest of it, as well and do the work, considering their preference. We all know F types however who seem to be stuck in a vicious loop; who are skilled at their preferences but haven't escaped their unhealthy behaviors yet, either coz those behaviors continue to serve them well, or because they are afraid of something.

    T types, despite their penchant for logic, still *are* human and do have the same human needs we all do: to be loved, appreciated, valued, etc. If they happen to figure out that they attract a certain type of people by emphasising a particular part of their personality, they might put that to use to serve those needs, I guess. Especially if they have been traumatised in the past when they tried getting those needs served in the 'conventional way'
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  5. #5
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    My brother, who is ESTP, is a master of manipulation. He takes pride in it. He's read books about sales and mastered the techniques. I have to remain on guard to this, because he will use it against me.

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    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Would it be possible for an IxTJ to be a master manipulator of women's emotions? That doesn't seem right, does it?
    it does, but only if they have learned how to do that and learned that it gives them desirable results. Te is about getting the desirable results by manipulating external world after all, and by manipulation i dont only mean emotional manipulation, but physical which is something that comes more naturally from Te users. if hurt,(especially tert/inferior) Fi is pretty good at finding justification to all sorts of immoral things, like emotional manipulation. hitler would be a good extreme example of this, really good at emotional manipulation and finding some stupid justification for such horrible things.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  7. #7
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    I think all types have their respective brand of manipulation, and it's not really a matter of "most" or "least". There are no innocents.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    If we were to oversimplify, people would probably say FJs, and ExFPs make the best emotional manipulators? Right? Or that it's somehow related to Fe and Pe?

    Would it be possible for an IxTJ to be a master manipulator of women's emotions? That doesn't seem right, does it?

    It actually seems out of place and very wrong, something someone would expect from an ExFJ or maybe an ESTP?

    Feel free to talk at length about emotional manipulation, because I am at a bit of a loss here as to how someone so uncomfortable with his own feelings, and who has such trouble expressing his deepest emotions, would be relatively proficient at manipulating others at will?

    WHAT IS THAT?

    Someone help me out here, no jokes please.

    And no, the person is not a sociopath, but could be a narcissist.
    Speed agrees in the Celebritytypes/Pastebin=Mbti/Enneagram combination of typings. thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    She doesn't simply say that she's good at manipulating people (and ESTP are the best at doing this anyway), she also says that she has no problem putting things over on people, which is the proof that she is a Thinker. A Feeler, an INFJ for exemple would place her success mainly on a sense of ethic. See the difference with a true NFJ like Emma Stone, for example. Putting things over on people, is a difficult thing for a Feeler, not something done spontaneously and naturally, but for an ESTP like Meryl S, it's easy, and she spontaneously and naturally do it.

    Sorry, I know INFJ like the idea of Meryl Streep being an INFJ, because it's very flattering for their ego, but it's not the case.

  9. #9
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I've known INTJs who pride themselves on their ability to manipulate to varying degrees. Some people manipulate from a calculated distance and others are so wrapped up in their feelings that their manipulation is connected to personal feelings of fear and desperation.

    Even when people are out of touch with their emotions, all that information is still present in their subconscious minds. If I were to oversimplify based on my understanding of MBTI and observation, I would tend to say that NTs, and INTJs in particular, are probably the most able to achieve subtle, calculated manipulation. Having Te and Fi makes it possible to understand the really personal realm, but to be able to create systems for managing it or manipulating it. I've been manipulated by NTs many times, although it wasn't malicious.

    I've dealt with FJ manipulation and it tends to be really direct and overbearing. It is not subtle at all.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    [...] I am at a bit of a loss here as to how someone so uncomfortable with his own feelings, and who has such trouble expressing his deepest emotions, would be relatively proficient at manipulating others at will?
    It is not necessary to feel one's own feelings to figure out what input someone else's emotional machinery needs in order to produce a desired output. Observation is enough.

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