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The Ti problem solving process vs. the Te problem solving process.

The Great One

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So I've been looking everywhere for answers on this question that I have, but no one can answer this question so far. My question is this: What is the main difference between the Ti problem solving process and the Te problem solving process? So far I have come up with this:

With the Ti problem solving process, the individual in question solves a problem in their own head. They first identify the problem and understand it fully. Then they come up with a solution by themselves, without really consulting external forces. The Ti method of solving a problem seems to be trial and error, trial and error. The Ti user first comes up with a possible solution that will work to solve a problem then tries it, and if it doesn't work, they try something else. When I think of the Ti problem solving process I think of Thomas Edison's invention of the light bulb: He had many different solutions in mind to possibly solve his problem and kept trying thing after thing until it worked. Ti seems to have the tinker toy methodology to solving problems. Ti seems to only consult external resources when it gets stuck, and can't figure something out. It should also be noted that it is much more important for the Ti user to understand the full nature of their problem solving process and the problem at hand. You can't just give a Ti user a task and tell them to do it, because the common response you will get out of them is, "Why am I doing this?" and "How does it work"? This often angers Te users because they will say to themselves, "Who cares how it works, just do it! This is wasting time having to explain it to you", and this in turn often angers Ti users.

The Te problem solving process seems to be more external. When the Te user is trying to solve a problem, they look to the external world. In order to solve a problem the Te user, will often consult an expert in the field of the problem that he is trying to solve: the Te user will go to known authorities on a subject. In addition, the Te user will conduct research and look at external facts from things such as books by accredited authors. When I think of the Te method to solving a problem I often think of writing a college paper: You do loads of research on a subject, get the facts, organize the data, and state the "credible" external sources where you got the information. Boom! Problem solved.

Would you folks agree with this, and/or would you like to add more to this post?
 

KDude

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I think I look at things holistically... But maybe not quite in the same way one would associate with Ne (or maybe I do). If I was asked to assemble a piece of store bought furniture, I'd be better off seeing a picture of the completed project, and going from there. I'd also conduct trial and error as well, like you do.. sort of experimenting and looking at how the pieces work in my hands. All the steps would "click" easier from that standpoint. Te would take a more step by step approach and follow the instructions more carefully. I think both an ESTJ and ISTP at least could step into each other's shoes and do things the other way, but each is going to have a preference.
 

Xann

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So I've been looking everywhere for answers on this question that I have, but no one can answer this question so far. My question is this: What is the main difference between the Ti problem solving process and the Te problem solving process?

Perhaps no one has been willing to go into the required depth of analysis to be able to answer this question to you personally satisfactorily, but the answers are quite blatantly visible upon consulting source works on function theory. (Heh, this is quite obviously a case of your Ti seeking clarification via an Fe/Ne source imo, while I personally being a Te user (inferior however) would simply create my own hypothesis based upon externally valid sources of information. It is not like this question has never been posed before in an observable location, but I do not think you are actually asking the right question, as a function by itself can never purely solve a problem.

So far I have come up with this:

With the Ti problem solving process, the individual in question solves a problem in their own head. They first identify the problem and understand it fully. Then they come up with a solution by themselves, without really consulting external forces. The Ti method of solving a problem seems to be trial and error, trial and error. The Ti user first comes up with a possible solution that will work to solve a problem then tries it, and if it doesn't work, they try something else. When I think of the Ti problem solving process I think of Thomas Edison's invention of the light bulb: He had many different solutions in mind to possibly solve his problem and kept trying thing after thing until it worked. Ti seems to have the tinker toy methodology to solving problems. Ti seems to only consult external resources when it gets stuck, and can't figure something out. It should also be noted that it is much more important for the Ti user to understand the full nature of their problem solving process and the problem at hand. You can't just give a Ti user a task and tell them to do it, because the common response you will get out of them is, "Why am I doing this?" and "How does it work"? This often angers Te users because they will say to themselves, "Who cares how it works, just do it! This is wasting time having to explain it to you", and this in turn often angers Ti users.

First off, I'd like to make clear that all problems are solved in a person's own head, regardless of their function set up, and while Ti does value internal logical consistency in understanding reality and potential problems therein, it still requires external direction, information, and a reason to do so, which are all supplied by the extraverted functions and senses of said Ti user. You say "They first identify the problem and understand it fully", I would have to say while this is often the case with an ENTP Ti-user who has already scoped out the totality of what they intend to solve internally via Ne foresight, this is not always the case with all usages of Ti, nor any practical problem beyond a theoretically-posed one; while it is the nature of the ENTP mind to perceive potential problems in this manner it is rarely the case in reality. Most usages of Ti when it comes to solving complex and multi-layered problems require constant sculpting with the use of Ne, Se or Fe. Although Ti users do tend to seem to "solve problems by themselves" more often than not when Ti is in the dominant or auxiliary position, the internal forms of understanding of logic, cause-effect, and perceptions of internal and external consistency were already in existence prior to the introduction of said problems due to previous analysis of the sense perceptions via the use of extraverted functions.
The solution, while seemingly not having been reliant on any external force, is completely defined by the posed problem, which was previously understood in its totality in the case of a Ti user by their Fe function (which contrary to common opinion does not always have to do directly with people, but rather can apply to awareness of a perceived "need" of any kind), as well as the amalgamation of thought stemming from their other functions. No problem is ever perceived or solved through the use of a single function.

The Te problem solving process seems to be more external. When the Te user is trying to solve a problem, they look to the external world. In order to solve a problem the Te user, will often consult an expert in the field of the problem that he is trying to solve: the Te user will go to known authorities on a subject. In addition, the Te user will conduct research and look at external facts from things such as books by accredited authors. When I think of the Te method to solving a problem I often think of writing a college paper: You do loads of research on a subject, get the facts, organize the data, and state the "credible" external sources where you got the information. Boom! Problem solved.

While I agree with this for the most part, I'd just like to state that not all Te users care for things such as accredited authors or citing credible sources, for many Te users who seek to solve problems for their own sake much prefer actual external and internal validity in reality over "credibility", it is just that their route for seeking this starts from the outside rather than the inside, but use of either function (Ti or Te) can result in both external and internal validity to an equal degree given enough understanding and determination when it comes to scoping out reality and solving problems. Keep in mind an introverted Te user will by default be consulting themselves prior to going to search for externally valid sources of information, especially in the case of IxFP types, who have realities strongly filtered by other functions and who place much more value on their understanding of the subjectivity of a potential problem rather than just quickly seeking out external sources to "solve it".

Nikola Tesla said:
If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search... I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.

In my opinion a healthy usage of both functions is superior to any function by itself.
 

Salomé

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People write a lot of shit about functions...

There is no such thing as a "Ti-user" vs a "Te-user". Anyone can use Ti or Te, depending on what makes sense in a given scenario.

Ti and Te are not "problem-solving processes". They are methods of decision-making.
Boiled down, Te is pragmatic; Ti is aesthetic.
 

Azure Flame

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Te uses objective facts and Ti uses subjective facts that the Ti user doesn't consider grounded until they're put into practice and yield predictable results. This is why STP's can be incredibly stubborn in their beliefs and have "theories" as to why something happens the way it does, but they look outlandish to Te users. The STP will come up with a theory, "I believe if I punch jerry in the face he'll cry because he's been thinking a lot about his dead mother lately." So an Se-Ti user punches jerry in the face, jerry cries. "See look, Jerry is thinking about his mother constantly I proved it!" This is one of the flaws with Ti in that if they're not careful it can attribute the wrong information to the actual solution, and the Ti user can become very confident in his reasoning which ultimately doesn't make any sense to anyone else.

So for you, a Ti user, I would imagine you have an experimental approach, most likely trial and error so long as everything makes sense in your mind. Your create the theory in your mind, and then you implement it to see if its practical in real life. This is why TJ's are often very afraid of looking wrong while TP's could care less. If a TJ is wrong, it basically means all of their sources are wrong and their life is in shambles... Sucks. Ti users will often just drop the theory and come up with something new and not take it personally.

If you're a Te user, your decision would be based on things that you KNOW for a fact work.
ENTJ: "We're gonna go get some girls tonight at the club. Wear a suit, shave, cut your hair, put on deodorant, and don't act like an idiot."
ENTP: "Hey wanna TRY picking up some girls tonight? I made a machine that shoots lasers everywhere at the club, its gonna be awesome. I wonder if it'll attract anybody."

More specifically, Ti is ANALOGICAL while Te is LOGICAL. It is universally understood by Te users that 1+1=2, and that if you plug these numbers into a calculator and follow math equations they will yield logical results.

However, Ti focus's more on analogical data. This is why TP's often use synonyms and analogies to explain their theories. Imagine cutting a snowflake out of construction paper. Then you open up the paper and you have an entire circle of a snowflake just because each data point was mirrored via similar traits and analogical data.
 

RaptorWizard

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I think Edison was a Te user, ESTJ to be precise.
He was definately very bossy and used experience rather than conceptualization to come to basic discoveries.
A real Ti user would be like an Einstein or a Da Vinci.
Another real Te user could be Newton, who really made the system move.
Einstein and Da Vinci on the other hand just sought knowledge.
A real visionary however can take action to make these dreams real.
 

KDude

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So an Se-Ti user punches jerry in the face, jerry cries. "See look, Jerry is thinking about his mother constantly I proved it!" This is one of the flaws with Ti in that if they're not careful it can attribute the wrong information to the actual solution, and the Ti user can become very confident in his reasoning which ultimately doesn't make any sense to anyone else.
.

To read something that isn't there is a flaw in perception. Not logic. It's crappy Ni. Something both all SPs engage in, but ESPs moreso. As Jung would say, "[Se Dominant's] intuition, the noblest of human gifts, is a mere personal subtlety, a sniffing into every corner; instead of searching the horizon, it recedes to the narrowest gauge of human meanness."
 
W

WALMART

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Ti likes to do the talking, Te likes to have others talk for them.
 

KDude

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What do you mean? I don't like to talk at least. I think I devote time to being as succinct as possible. I hate having to hold anyone's hand and walk them through fully. I just want to throw the "main point" out.
 

The Great One

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[MENTION=9214]KDude[/MENTION]

I think I look at things holistically... But maybe not quite in the same way one would associate with Ne (or maybe I do). If I was asked to assemble a piece of store bought furniture, I'd be better off seeing a picture of the completed project, and going from there. I'd also conduct trial and error as well, like you do.. sort of experimenting and looking at how the pieces work in my hands. All the steps would "click" easier from that standpoint. Te would take a more step by step approach and follow the instructions more carefully. I think both an ESTJ and ISTP at least could step into each other's shoes and do things the other way, but each is going to have a preference.

Yeah I agree full heartedly. I also prefer the trial and error method of just figuring things out myself.
[MENTION=9627]Chawie[/MENTION]

Perhaps no one has been willing to go into the required depth of analysis to be able to answer this question to you personally satisfactorily, but the answers are quite blatantly visible upon consulting source works on function theory. (Heh, this is quite obviously a case of your Ti seeking clarification via an Fe/Ne source imo, while I personally being a Te user (inferior however) would simply create my own hypothesis based upon externally valid sources of information. It is not like this question has never been posed before in an observable location, but I do not think you are actually asking the right question, as a function by itself can never purely solve a problem.

I've looked everywhere on the internet and I haven't really found anything to answer my question. So I appreciate your response.

While I agree with this for the most part, I'd just like to state that not all Te users care for things such as accredited authors or citing credible sources, for many Te users who seek to solve problems for their own sake much prefer actual external and internal validity in reality over "credibility", it is just that their route for seeking this starts from the outside rather than the inside, but use of either function (Ti or Te) can result in both external and internal validity to an equal degree given enough understanding and determination when it comes to scoping out reality and solving problems. Keep in mind an introverted Te user will by default be consulting themselves prior to going to search for externally valid sources of information, especially in the case of IxFP types, who have realities strongly filtered by other functions and who place much more value on their understanding of the subjectivity of a potential problem rather than just quickly seeking out external sources to "solve it".

If this is the case, then how do Te users pick their sources and decide which one is the most credible? For instance, (especially when it comes to theoretical things) many experts in the field can be largely accredited, but yet have very different opinions on the same subjects. For example, there are rational psychologists and empirical psychologists, and they believe very different things. Empirical psychologists believe that the mind is like a blank piece of paper when born and we learn everything through experience. Then, on the other hand we have rational psychologists and they believe that we are born with a great deal of our psyche and personality for example, already in tact. How do Te users determine which source to go with?

Second, how do Ti users confirm their beliefs, and know that their thinking is correct? Personally, what I can do with a lot of things, is figure out if what I'm doing works. If it worked, then I know that I did something right. However, when designing things like abstract theories, I have to take a different approach. Often times I will reach out to the group and ask others around me if what I am saying makes sense to them or if they have possible come to conclusions similar to me.
 

The Great One

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[MENTION=5143]Salomé[/MENTION]

Of course anyone can use Ti or Te. However, people generally have a preference for one or the other.


[MENTION=15371]RaptorWizard[/MENTION]

He was bossy because he had an 8 fix. However, with the way that we went about inventing the light bulb, all I can personally see him as is a Ti user. The process that he used was about as Ti as it gets. Everything that I have read about him in general points to Ti.
[MENTION=10984]DJ Arendee[/MENTION]

1. True, I have noticed that Ti users are often apt to use subjective facts that aren't yet proven.
2. Yes, I often use an experimental trial and error approach to solving problems. However, sometimes if I know that something already works, then I'll just go with what works. lol, I don't have to re-invent the wheel with absolutely everything. I have noticed though, I have pissed off the bosses that I have had in the past, because I often do try to re-invent the wheel so to say and think that things can always be improved. Companies that I have worked for tell me, "Our system is flawless, and there is nothing wrong with it". My answer is always, "Bullshit! Anything can always be improved even more."
3. I disagree with you though about your theory that Ti users don't care if they are wrong. I think that possibly STP's don't care if they are wrong but for myself as an ENTP I care very much if I am wrong. As a Ti user, I want to understand everything as vividly as and as intricately as possible, and when someone tells me that I am wrong, it's like going to hell for me. It's literally realizing that my understanding could be inaccurately and I live to understand how things work, so this rocks my world. Plus, it makes me look like a moron and ENTP's hate to look like idiots. That's one of the worst things that someone can do to me.
 

skylights

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My observation has been that people who are heavier in Te usage will choose the solution that is most likely to work and work efficiently given external parameters, while people who are heavier in Ti usage will choose the solution that theoretically ought to be the best solution for the longest amount of time (in other words, that ought to be the best given any external parameters).

So, for instance, if the family is uncomfortably cold in a room, my Ti-dom dad will be more inclined to try to find a single exact optimal temperature, and then program it in so that it rises during the day while we're asleep and drops at night to save energy, etc., and he'll try to set it for the rest of the year, and so on. He desires for it to be The Right Solution. Me, I might notice that it's a particularly cold day, and walk over to the thermostat and knock it up a few degrees, and then figure I'll adjust it again later depending on whether it needs it or not. I want it to be a quick and practical solution. (Given, I'm not the best Te example, but I think it illustrates it regardless). My ISTP brother is a little less focused on theoretical ideals than INTP Dad, but he still tends to try to formulate the most accurate solution, instead of the most practical one.

IMO, this makes TPs better suited to creating the best systems, but TJs better suited to moment-to-moment efficiency. I'd want the TP to design my sound system but when it comes to getting it working 30 minutes before the party, I'd probably ask the TJ.

The Great One said:
I disagree with you though about your theory that Ti users don't care if they are wrong. I think that possibly STP's don't care if they are wrong but for myself as an ENTP I care very much if I am wrong.

To me it seems like all Ti users care very much, but they also have a more personal subjective take on Correct and Incorrect, whereas Te users tend to see more in externally objective Works and Doesn't Work. INTP Dad, for instance, believes that 68 is The Best internal car temperature for a long list of reasons. I think that is freezing and we have 2 car climate zones for a reason. In that case, he doesn't care what I think, because he is convinced for all his reasons that 68 is the Correct solution. For me, 68 Doesn't Work, so I change it as soon as he's not looking.
 

KDude

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So, for instance, if the family is uncomfortably cold in a room, my Ti-dom dad will be more inclined to try to find a single exact optimal temperature, and then program it in so that it rises during the day while we're asleep and drops at night to save energy, etc., and he'll try to set it for the rest of the year, and so on. He desires for it to be The Right Solution. Me, I might notice that it's a particularly cold day, and walk over to the thermostat and knock it up a few degrees, and then figure I'll adjust it again later depending on whether it needs it or not. I want it to be a quick and practical solution. (Given, I'm not the best Te example, but I think it illustrates it regardless). My ISTP brother is a little less focused on theoretical ideals than INTP Dad, but he still tends to try to formulate the most accurate solution, instead of the most practical one. .

Yeah, I don't know. You're turning ISTPs into systemizers, like your INTP dad. ISTPs are troubleshooters. There are cases where I want to think ahead more and rig a more fool proof system, but in my experience, it's mostly been with computer repair. Especially someone else's computer that constantly gets fucked up (due to their misuse and/or surfing porn). So I try to set up little safeguards and things they should do if they're going to be a problem. It takes some experience to know what they're doing wrong, so I don't just "set up" some big system right off the bat. And with air conditioners specifically, I'm Se. I know when it's cold and the heat needs to be adjusted at the moment. I don't predict that stuff.
 

skylights

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Yeah, I don't know. You're turning ISTPs into systemizers, like your INTP dad. ISTPs are troubleshooters. There are cases where I want to think ahead more and rig a more fool proof system, but in my experience, it's mostly been with computer repair. Especially someone else's computer that constantly gets fucked up (due to their misuse and/or surfing porn). So I try to set up little safeguards and things they should do if they're going to be a problem. It takes some experience to know what they're doing wrong, so I don't just "set up" some big system right off the bat. And with air conditioners specifically, I'm Se. I know when it's cold and the heat needs to be adjusted at the moment. I don't predict that stuff.

Yeah, true. You're right, my brother is way more in the moment, too. It still seems like my brother is more of a "universal logic" person. Tell me if you disagree, but I guess the way I understood it was that Ti sees a huge coherent background system of logic throughout the universe, like the laws of physics, and it uses that to problem-solve. STPs engage it more in the moment to troubleshoot and craft, while NTPs use it more to engineer and theorize. And TPs refine their understanding/utilization of that background system of logic underlying everything as they mature.

I could be wrong / Ne-biased, of course.
 

KDude

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Yeah, true. You're right, my brother is way more in the moment, too. It still seems like my brother is more of a "universal logic" person. Tell me if you disagree, but I guess the way I understood it was that Ti sees a huge coherent background system of logic throughout the universe, like the laws of physics, and it uses that to problem-solve. STPs engage it more in the moment to troubleshoot and craft, while NTPs use it more to engineer and theorize. And TPs refine their understanding/utilization of that background system of logic underlying everything as they mature.

I could be wrong / Ne-biased, of course.

Not really. That kind of large backdrop to the universe is something at the tip of my tongue. A flash in the pan. There's clarity when my thoughts are connected to something. NTPs work in the abstract more. I'm connected to a physical viewpoint, and my body. If I address the existence of the "system", it's peripherally at best. I was going to represent other STPs, but I'll just speak for myself. This is how I see it.
 

highlander

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My observation has been that people who are heavier in Te usage will choose the solution that is most likely to work and work efficiently given external parameters, while people who are heavier in Ti usage will choose the solution that theoretically ought to be the best solution for the longest amount of time (in other words, that ought to be the best given any external parameters).

So, for instance, if the family is uncomfortably cold in a room, my Ti-dom dad will be more inclined to try to find a single exact optimal temperature, and then program it in so that it rises during the day while we're asleep and drops at night to save energy, etc., and he'll try to set it for the rest of the year, and so on. He desires for it to be The Right Solution. Me, I might notice that it's a particularly cold day, and walk over to the thermostat and knock it up a few degrees, and then figure I'll adjust it again later depending on whether it needs it or not. I want it to be a quick and practical solution. (Given, I'm not the best Te example, but I think it illustrates it regardless). My ISTP brother is a little less focused on theoretical ideals than INTP Dad, but he still tends to try to formulate the most accurate solution, instead of the most practical one.

IMO, this makes TPs better suited to creating the best systems, but TJs better suited to moment-to-moment efficiency. I'd want the TP to design my sound system but when it comes to getting it working 30 minutes before the party, I'd probably ask the TJ.

This sounds exactly right to me.
 
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