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  1. #81
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I guess. The bottom line is they aren't like having an ISTJ boss at a company who breaks out the procedural manual every time you break a rule and tells you what you did was breaking ethical code number 556 section A or whatever. lol
    I despise those. Really, its annoying...

  2. #82
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I despise those. Really, its annoying...
    As do I my friend, as do I.

  3. #83
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I guess. The bottom line is they aren't like having an ISTJ boss at a company who breaks out the procedural manual every time you break a rule and tells you what you did was breaking ethical code number 556 section A or whatever. lol
    No, definitely not.

  4. #84
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Well it's true I don't mean it in the sense of SJ respect for authority. I mean it in an intellectual sense. INTJ's have their own opinions, but it's more Ni modifying the Te information than the other way around; whereas in NTP's Ti modifies Ne information.
    Sometimes, it seems to me like INTJs take Te bits of data and use Ni to connect them and derive meaning.

    I feel like with me, I do the opposite. I take Ne bits of data and connect them and derive meaning with Ti.

    Would that be your observation?
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  5. #85
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Sometimes, it seems to me like INTJs take Te bits of data and use Ni to connect them and derive meaning.

    I feel like with me, I do the opposite. I take Ne bits of data and connect them and derive meaning with Ti.

    Would that be your observation?
    Yes.

    Extroverted functions are objective (even Fe) and work with impersonal factors. Fe is less so than Te, but it still operates with collective subjectivity- so is essentially objective with regards to the self. The Fe user will rely on an introverted function, either Ni or Si in order to personalize it. So both Fe and Te are authoritative in this way, because they work with collective standards.

  6. #86
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Yes.

    Extroverted functions are objective (even Fe) and work with impersonal factors. Fe is less so than Te, but it still operates with collective subjectivity- so is essentially objective with regards to the self. The Fe user will rely on an introverted function, either Ni or Si in order to personalize it. So both Fe and Te are authoritative in this way, because they work with collective standards.
    Hmm.. I can't figure out what that has to do with why some INTJs seem to be personally offended by being questioned. It's very odd... they'll say something with a lot of confidence, not really explain themselves, and then kind of get annoyed when the confidence is not enough to sway people. Introverted feeling, perhaps?

    From what I remember of Jung, Jung stressed the collective standards part, as if to say that the fact that Extraverted Thinking is not necessarily more true than Introverted Thinking. I remember him suggesting that Extraverted Thinking can accept something as true simply because so many people agree on it. Not so with Ti.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  7. #87
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Yes.

    Extroverted functions are objective (even Fe) and work with impersonal factors. Fe is less so than Te, but it still operates with collective subjectivity- so is essentially objective with regards to the self. The Fe user will rely on an introverted function, either Ni or Si in order to personalize it. So both Fe and Te are authoritative in this way, because they work with collective standards.
    Would that mean that Te might use Fi in the same way? Or how would it work for an ENFP?
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  8. #88
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Hmm.. I can't figure out what that has to do with why some INTJs seem to be personally offended by being questioned. It's very odd... they'll say something with a lot of confidence, not really explain themselves, and then kind of get annoyed when the confidence is not enough to sway people. Introverted feeling, perhaps?
    Yeah, it's an odd phenomenon, not to mention very frustrating. But I can tell you as someone with strong Ni if not an Ni dom that the function has a lot to do with it; Ni is the most abstract function by far. Ni can't really explain itself, because it doesn't operate with language- it reads energy patterns. Couple this with Te which operates on objective measurable standards and results, and the collective nature begins to make the INTJ feel as if s/he should be able to explain it; add in Fi and the INTJ's personal identity and ego is threatened. At least, this is my impression of the psychology of the situation as manifested in the functions.
    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    From what I remember of Jung, Jung stressed the collective standards part, as if to say that the fact that Extraverted Thinking is not necessarily more true than Introverted Thinking. I remember him suggesting that Extraverted Thinking can accept something as true simply because so many people agree on it. Not so with Ti.
    Right. I haven't actually read Jung, but I tend to come to the same conclusions.

  9. #89
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Yeah, it's an odd phenomenon, not to mention very frustrating. But I can tell you as someone with strong Ni if not an Ni dom that the function has a lot to do with it; Ni is the most abstract function by far. Ni can't really explain itself, because it doesn't operate with language- it reads energy patterns. Couple this with Te which operates on objective measurable standards and results, and the collective nature begins to make the INTJ feel as if s/he should be able to explain it; add in Fi and the INTJ's personal identity and ego is threatened. At least, this is my impression of the psychology of the situation as manifested in the functions.
    I speculate that weak Te has a lot to do with it, because some INTJs are better at this than others. Basically, they feel frustrated because they can't explain because the Te isn't strong enough.

    Sometimes I get frustrated when I feel like me Ne isn't strong enough. I want to have some new creative idea, and it just doesn't come.

    Maybe I'm sidetracking things, but why do you think Ni is more abstract than Fi?
    Right. I haven't actually read Jung, but I tend to come to the same conclusions.
    It's tricky, because in this context, subjective and objective don't actually mean what people think it means. Really, the only thing it means is internal vs. external.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  10. #90
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolita View Post
    Would that mean that Te might use Fi in the same way? Or how would it work for an ENFP?
    Yeah, I think so. Ne provides objective data, Fi personalizes it (and this personal perspective is emphasized with someone Fi aux/dom), and then Te executes the Fi decision or provides a reality check. Fi keeps Te in check by reminding the user of her or his feelings and social concerns, and Te keeps Fi in check by reminding the user of having a sense of proportion and the facts of the situation. Te provides ENFP's with a sense of grounding and practicality. ENFP's can be terrific at implementing things and getting things done; but Te is still in service to Fi. It's the Fi values and sense of inner harmony which directs the action.

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