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  1. #11
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    What do you mean? I don't like to talk at least. I think I devote time to being as succinct as possible. I hate having to hold anyone's hand and walk them through fully. I just want to throw the "main point" out.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Ti likes to do the talking, Te likes to have others talk for them.
    You've never met an ENFP or ESFP!

  3. #13
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @KDude

    I think I look at things holistically... But maybe not quite in the same way one would associate with Ne (or maybe I do). If I was asked to assemble a piece of store bought furniture, I'd be better off seeing a picture of the completed project, and going from there. I'd also conduct trial and error as well, like you do.. sort of experimenting and looking at how the pieces work in my hands. All the steps would "click" easier from that standpoint. Te would take a more step by step approach and follow the instructions more carefully. I think both an ESTJ and ISTP at least could step into each other's shoes and do things the other way, but each is going to have a preference.
    Yeah I agree full heartedly. I also prefer the trial and error method of just figuring things out myself.

    @Chawie

    Perhaps no one has been willing to go into the required depth of analysis to be able to answer this question to you personally satisfactorily, but the answers are quite blatantly visible upon consulting source works on function theory. (Heh, this is quite obviously a case of your Ti seeking clarification via an Fe/Ne source imo, while I personally being a Te user (inferior however) would simply create my own hypothesis based upon externally valid sources of information. It is not like this question has never been posed before in an observable location, but I do not think you are actually asking the right question, as a function by itself can never purely solve a problem.
    I've looked everywhere on the internet and I haven't really found anything to answer my question. So I appreciate your response.

    While I agree with this for the most part, I'd just like to state that not all Te users care for things such as accredited authors or citing credible sources, for many Te users who seek to solve problems for their own sake much prefer actual external and internal validity in reality over "credibility", it is just that their route for seeking this starts from the outside rather than the inside, but use of either function (Ti or Te) can result in both external and internal validity to an equal degree given enough understanding and determination when it comes to scoping out reality and solving problems. Keep in mind an introverted Te user will by default be consulting themselves prior to going to search for externally valid sources of information, especially in the case of IxFP types, who have realities strongly filtered by other functions and who place much more value on their understanding of the subjectivity of a potential problem rather than just quickly seeking out external sources to "solve it".
    If this is the case, then how do Te users pick their sources and decide which one is the most credible? For instance, (especially when it comes to theoretical things) many experts in the field can be largely accredited, but yet have very different opinions on the same subjects. For example, there are rational psychologists and empirical psychologists, and they believe very different things. Empirical psychologists believe that the mind is like a blank piece of paper when born and we learn everything through experience. Then, on the other hand we have rational psychologists and they believe that we are born with a great deal of our psyche and personality for example, already in tact. How do Te users determine which source to go with?

    Second, how do Ti users confirm their beliefs, and know that their thinking is correct? Personally, what I can do with a lot of things, is figure out if what I'm doing works. If it worked, then I know that I did something right. However, when designing things like abstract theories, I have to take a different approach. Often times I will reach out to the group and ask others around me if what I am saying makes sense to them or if they have possible come to conclusions similar to me.

  4. #14
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Salomé

    Of course anyone can use Ti or Te. However, people generally have a preference for one or the other.


    @RaptorWizard

    He was bossy because he had an 8 fix. However, with the way that we went about inventing the light bulb, all I can personally see him as is a Ti user. The process that he used was about as Ti as it gets. Everything that I have read about him in general points to Ti.
    @DJ Arendee

    1. True, I have noticed that Ti users are often apt to use subjective facts that aren't yet proven.
    2. Yes, I often use an experimental trial and error approach to solving problems. However, sometimes if I know that something already works, then I'll just go with what works. lol, I don't have to re-invent the wheel with absolutely everything. I have noticed though, I have pissed off the bosses that I have had in the past, because I often do try to re-invent the wheel so to say and think that things can always be improved. Companies that I have worked for tell me, "Our system is flawless, and there is nothing wrong with it". My answer is always, "Bullshit! Anything can always be improved even more."
    3. I disagree with you though about your theory that Ti users don't care if they are wrong. I think that possibly STP's don't care if they are wrong but for myself as an ENTP I care very much if I am wrong. As a Ti user, I want to understand everything as vividly as and as intricately as possible, and when someone tells me that I am wrong, it's like going to hell for me. It's literally realizing that my understanding could be inaccurately and I live to understand how things work, so this rocks my world. Plus, it makes me look like a moron and ENTP's hate to look like idiots. That's one of the worst things that someone can do to me.

  5. #15
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    My observation has been that people who are heavier in Te usage will choose the solution that is most likely to work and work efficiently given external parameters, while people who are heavier in Ti usage will choose the solution that theoretically ought to be the best solution for the longest amount of time (in other words, that ought to be the best given any external parameters).

    So, for instance, if the family is uncomfortably cold in a room, my Ti-dom dad will be more inclined to try to find a single exact optimal temperature, and then program it in so that it rises during the day while we're asleep and drops at night to save energy, etc., and he'll try to set it for the rest of the year, and so on. He desires for it to be The Right Solution. Me, I might notice that it's a particularly cold day, and walk over to the thermostat and knock it up a few degrees, and then figure I'll adjust it again later depending on whether it needs it or not. I want it to be a quick and practical solution. (Given, I'm not the best Te example, but I think it illustrates it regardless). My ISTP brother is a little less focused on theoretical ideals than INTP Dad, but he still tends to try to formulate the most accurate solution, instead of the most practical one.

    IMO, this makes TPs better suited to creating the best systems, but TJs better suited to moment-to-moment efficiency. I'd want the TP to design my sound system but when it comes to getting it working 30 minutes before the party, I'd probably ask the TJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One
    I disagree with you though about your theory that Ti users don't care if they are wrong. I think that possibly STP's don't care if they are wrong but for myself as an ENTP I care very much if I am wrong.
    To me it seems like all Ti users care very much, but they also have a more personal subjective take on Correct and Incorrect, whereas Te users tend to see more in externally objective Works and Doesn't Work. INTP Dad, for instance, believes that 68 is The Best internal car temperature for a long list of reasons. I think that is freezing and we have 2 car climate zones for a reason. In that case, he doesn't care what I think, because he is convinced for all his reasons that 68 is the Correct solution. For me, 68 Doesn't Work, so I change it as soon as he's not looking.

  6. #16
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    So, for instance, if the family is uncomfortably cold in a room, my Ti-dom dad will be more inclined to try to find a single exact optimal temperature, and then program it in so that it rises during the day while we're asleep and drops at night to save energy, etc., and he'll try to set it for the rest of the year, and so on. He desires for it to be The Right Solution. Me, I might notice that it's a particularly cold day, and walk over to the thermostat and knock it up a few degrees, and then figure I'll adjust it again later depending on whether it needs it or not. I want it to be a quick and practical solution. (Given, I'm not the best Te example, but I think it illustrates it regardless). My ISTP brother is a little less focused on theoretical ideals than INTP Dad, but he still tends to try to formulate the most accurate solution, instead of the most practical one. .
    Yeah, I don't know. You're turning ISTPs into systemizers, like your INTP dad. ISTPs are troubleshooters. There are cases where I want to think ahead more and rig a more fool proof system, but in my experience, it's mostly been with computer repair. Especially someone else's computer that constantly gets fucked up (due to their misuse and/or surfing porn). So I try to set up little safeguards and things they should do if they're going to be a problem. It takes some experience to know what they're doing wrong, so I don't just "set up" some big system right off the bat. And with air conditioners specifically, I'm Se. I know when it's cold and the heat needs to be adjusted at the moment. I don't predict that stuff.

  7. #17
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Yeah, I don't know. You're turning ISTPs into systemizers, like your INTP dad. ISTPs are troubleshooters. There are cases where I want to think ahead more and rig a more fool proof system, but in my experience, it's mostly been with computer repair. Especially someone else's computer that constantly gets fucked up (due to their misuse and/or surfing porn). So I try to set up little safeguards and things they should do if they're going to be a problem. It takes some experience to know what they're doing wrong, so I don't just "set up" some big system right off the bat. And with air conditioners specifically, I'm Se. I know when it's cold and the heat needs to be adjusted at the moment. I don't predict that stuff.
    Yeah, true. You're right, my brother is way more in the moment, too. It still seems like my brother is more of a "universal logic" person. Tell me if you disagree, but I guess the way I understood it was that Ti sees a huge coherent background system of logic throughout the universe, like the laws of physics, and it uses that to problem-solve. STPs engage it more in the moment to troubleshoot and craft, while NTPs use it more to engineer and theorize. And TPs refine their understanding/utilization of that background system of logic underlying everything as they mature.

    I could be wrong / Ne-biased, of course.

  8. #18
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Yeah, true. You're right, my brother is way more in the moment, too. It still seems like my brother is more of a "universal logic" person. Tell me if you disagree, but I guess the way I understood it was that Ti sees a huge coherent background system of logic throughout the universe, like the laws of physics, and it uses that to problem-solve. STPs engage it more in the moment to troubleshoot and craft, while NTPs use it more to engineer and theorize. And TPs refine their understanding/utilization of that background system of logic underlying everything as they mature.

    I could be wrong / Ne-biased, of course.
    Not really. That kind of large backdrop to the universe is something at the tip of my tongue. A flash in the pan. There's clarity when my thoughts are connected to something. NTPs work in the abstract more. I'm connected to a physical viewpoint, and my body. If I address the existence of the "system", it's peripherally at best. I was going to represent other STPs, but I'll just speak for myself. This is how I see it.

  9. #19
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Boiled down, Te is pragmatic; Ti is aesthetic.
    I think one could also say Ti is process-oriented and Te is product-oriented.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  10. #20
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    My observation has been that people who are heavier in Te usage will choose the solution that is most likely to work and work efficiently given external parameters, while people who are heavier in Ti usage will choose the solution that theoretically ought to be the best solution for the longest amount of time (in other words, that ought to be the best given any external parameters).

    So, for instance, if the family is uncomfortably cold in a room, my Ti-dom dad will be more inclined to try to find a single exact optimal temperature, and then program it in so that it rises during the day while we're asleep and drops at night to save energy, etc., and he'll try to set it for the rest of the year, and so on. He desires for it to be The Right Solution. Me, I might notice that it's a particularly cold day, and walk over to the thermostat and knock it up a few degrees, and then figure I'll adjust it again later depending on whether it needs it or not. I want it to be a quick and practical solution. (Given, I'm not the best Te example, but I think it illustrates it regardless). My ISTP brother is a little less focused on theoretical ideals than INTP Dad, but he still tends to try to formulate the most accurate solution, instead of the most practical one.

    IMO, this makes TPs better suited to creating the best systems, but TJs better suited to moment-to-moment efficiency. I'd want the TP to design my sound system but when it comes to getting it working 30 minutes before the party, I'd probably ask the TJ.
    This sounds exactly right to me.

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